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View Poll Results: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is now meaningless?
Agree 351 47.95%
Disagree 381 52.05%
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:04 AM   #5656
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by JohnAnthony View Post
Not at all. Mayweather has to walk down southpaws, he cant fight them on the back foot. I think that will play into Manny massively.
He doesn't have to walk them down. Realize that. He can fight Manny on the back foot all day long bc Manny can't cut that ring off and Manny does not commit to the jab at all which is something you need to even bother Floyd.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:10 AM   #5657
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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He doesn't have to walk them down. Realize that. He can fight Manny on the back foot all day long bc Manny can't cut that ring off and Manny does not commit to the jab at all which is something you need to even bother Floyd.
Guess you missed the fights with Judah and Corley

And it not the jab that bothers Floyd, it is the left hand
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:11 AM   #5658
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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He doesn't have to walk them down. Realize that. He can fight Manny on the back foot all day long bc Manny can't cut that ring off and Manny does not commit to the jab at all which is something you need to even bother Floyd.

i disagree. He has success against southpaws when he walks them down with a high guard. When he doesn't he struggles.

I'd love it if he tried to walk manny down with a high guard.

The Manny fight would earn floyd more money than any other fight. It would also boost him in legacy rankings into one of the greatest of all time - Boosting his future earning s in future fights and advertising to rediculous levels.

If it was easy, he would have just fought him by now
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:14 AM   #5659
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=D4thincarnation;14106206]Guess you missed the fights with Judah and Corley

And it not the jab that bothers Floyd, it is the left hand[/QUOT


Even his Uncle and trainer said you need a jab to beat Floyd and he is the one training him.

Floyd has the size, reach, and footwork advantage against Manny. He doesn't need to walk him down at all. By the way Judah and Corley always sparred with Floyd in the gym so they knew each other very well so I don't look into that much.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:15 AM   #5660
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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i disagree. He has success against southpaws when he walks them down with a high guard. When he doesn't he struggles.

I'd love it if he tried to walk manny down with a high guard.

The Manny fight would earn floyd more money than any other fight. It would also boost him in legacy rankings into one of the greatest of all time - Boosting his future earning s in future fights and advertising to rediculous levels.

If it was easy, he would have just fought him by now
Floyd and the Mayweathers know their boxing, and there is a reason why they have chose to avoid Pacquiao, they know there is a very real possibility that Floyd loses because of Pacquiao attributes.

If Floyd really thought this was an easy nights work, it happens a long time ago.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:16 AM   #5661
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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i disagree. He has success against southpaws when he walks them down with a high guard. When he doesn't he struggles.

I'd love it if he tried to walk manny down with a high guard.

The Manny fight would earn floyd more money than any other fight. It would also boost him in legacy rankings into one of the greatest of all time - Boosting his future earning s in future fights and advertising to rediculous levels.

If it was easy, he would have just fought him by now
When he doesn't he struggles? Wtf. Floyd has only lost a total of 4 rounds against 6 or 7 Southpaws brah. Is that struggling in your book?
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:17 AM   #5662
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=mrjotatp4p;14106228]
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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
Guess you missed the fights with Judah and Corley

And it not the jab that bothers Floyd, it is the left hand[/QUOT


Even his Uncle and trainer said you need a jab to beat Floyd and he is the one training him.

Floyd has the size, reach, and footwork advantage against Manny. He doesn't need to walk him down at all. By the way Judah and Corley always sparred with Floyd in the gym so they knew each other very well so I don't look into that much.

That the difference between you and me, I got my knowledge from watching the fights and seeing Floyd's style, you got it from quotes from other people.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:22 AM   #5663
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=D4thincarnation;14106254]
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That the difference between you and me, I got my knowledge from watching the fights and seeing Floyd's style, you got it from quotes from other people.
**** are you talking about tard? I have seen all of each guys fights. Can Manny cut off the ring? No. Does he have a good jab? No. Floyd doesn't have to walk him down based off of those two things alone. If Floyd decides to walk him down its going to be smart educated pressure and he will bust Manny the **** up. Now if you really want to break down style then we can.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:33 AM   #5664
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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When he doesn't he struggles? Wtf. Floyd has only lost a total of 4 rounds against 6 or 7 Southpaws brah. Is that struggling in your book?

For floyd that is yes haha.

Corley he admits as his toughest fight. And Corley isn't very good. floyd was winning the rounds but he took alot of shots because he was struggling with the awquard angles.

Judah was winning the rounds till floyd started to walk him down.


Logic does say floyd wins. But there's a reason Floyd chose ask for testing instead of be involved in the biggest fight of the century. He isn't as confident as you are thats for sure
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:47 AM   #5665
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=mrjotatp4p;14106280]
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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post

**** are you talking about tard? I have seen all of each guys fights. Can Manny cut off the ring? No. Does he have a good jab? No. Floyd doesn't have to walk him down based off of those two things alone. If Floyd decides to walk him down its going to be smart educated pressure and he will bust Manny the **** up. Now if you really want to break down style then we can.
Still on about the jab?

If you think you know why Floyd struggles with the jab, tell me, or is it that you don't really know and you just heard it somewhere

If Miguel Cotto can back Floyd up, drive him into the corner, Manny will do so with ease.

And Pac will make him pay in there.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:50 AM   #5666
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=D4thincarnation;14106425]
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Originally Posted by mrjotatp4p View Post

Still on about the jab?

If you think you know why Floyd struggles with the jab, tell me, or is it that you don't really know and you just heard it somewhere

If Miguel Cotto can back Floyd up, drive him into the corner, Manny will do so with ease.

And Pac will make him pay in there.
And what did Cotto use to back Mayweather up? The ****ing jab you idiot.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:51 AM   #5667
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=mrjotatp4p;14106444]
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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post

And what did Cotto use to back Mayweather up? The ****ing jab you idiot.
So why does Mayweather struggle with the jab?

Still waiting
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:52 AM   #5668
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

Maybe you can find a quote somewhere where someone will tell you the answer.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:02 PM   #5669
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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So why does Mayweather struggle with the jab?

Still waiting

Mayweather’s first round against De La Hoya was a dream. Oscar shuffled forward bereft of any plan other than being big and somehow getting Floyd to march back to the ropes based upon his size. He fought square and jabless. Floyd on the other hand moved gracefully, jabbed with an uncharacteristic frequency, sometimes varying with an affective hook. Oscar didn’t land a significant punch and was quickly smothered on the one occasion he managed to get Floyd to the ropes. No problems were set for the pound-for-pound champ in that first. Mayweather controlled the center of the ring with his footwork and his left hand alone.

In the second, everything changed. It changed because De La Hoya started throwing his jab.

Oscar De La Hoya’s jab became a subject of some controversy when Emanuel Steward labeled it one of the very finest in history. I’m not sure that this statement can be justified, but when his jab is at its very best, as it was against Felix Trinidad or Miguel Gonzalez, it is an exceptional one. Over the next few rounds it would become the most significant weapon in De La Hoya’s bid to unseat the pound-for-pound #1. This, in many ways, was something of a surprise. Mayweather had opened jabbing forcefully and was De La Hoya’s technical superior. Generally “The Golden Boy” doesn’t do well jabbing with jabbers. Whitaker and Quartey are examples of top-class jabbers who have out-jabbed him, but more recently even Felix Sturm had arguably won that particular technical battle against De La Hoya.

Regardless, the first three punches Oscar threw in that second round were jabs and Mayweather, suddenly, was banished from the center of the ring. This is the first key ingredient in jabbing Mayweather. He needs to be taken to the ropes by more than just crowding and badgering. Mayweather respects and is alert to a jab that gains his attention. It’s the punch which most quickly reduces the deficit in hand speed he has over most opponents.

Secondly, it is a points gatherer. The jab is to modern boxing what world peace is to Miss Universe; to whit, you need to put it out there if you want to impress the judges. Taking control of the fight against Mayweather has proven so difficult for a succession of opponents that many of them have forgotten to fight whilst they are moving him back. The jab should be the weapon of choice.

Finally, Mayweather is a punch-picker extraordinaire. Those wishing to undermine him deride this skill as only being the type of hit-and-run tactics that saw him booed and in tears after the Carlos Baldomir fight. This is not the case. Mayweather picks the right punch. That’s a gift. But it takes time, in the fight, to perfect. He likes to measure his man. He likes to come to understand him. He likes to find the *****s in his armor that he can exploit. He’s a very specific fighter. The jab is the most general punch to deal with but the one that can be thrown with the most variety.
Mayweather couldn‘t match that jab. This meant that he was firmly on the backfoot. Mayweather punches from the backfoot as well as anyone in boxing, but a breach of the laws of physics are something that even Money can’t buy. There is an excellent demonstration of this just twenty seconds into that second round when De La Hoya decided he would lead with the right. It missed by an Irish country mile. What was interesting was that Mayweather also missed with his counter. He had scored with a near identical punch at around the same time in round one. The reason Floyd was now missing was that he was now leaning away, trying to slip Oscar’s jabs as opposed to in behind his own jabs. Even the most graceful of fighters needs a moment to make that adjustment and punch.

And that’s it. In one strategically shift the fight was changed and Oscar was in charge. Fighting Mayweather cannot be about strategy alone however. Rather, a strategically quilt needs to be sewn together from a series of specific tactics. Mayweather’s adaptability, intrinsic ability and exceptional technical acumen needs to be offset by specific detail rather than any grand plan. “I’ll do my thing and let him worry about me” will get you beaten, but “use good head movement, move forward behind a jab, try to pin him on the ropes” will get you just as beaten, even if it is by a smaller margin.

As a speedster and technician whose job it is to avoid being landed on first, Mayweather now had a full plate in front of him. Furthermore he is engaged at a higher level by virtue of the fact that he has been set a specific problem. What Oscar has to do now is set him another one.
Not a great feinter, De La Hoya tries his luck after their brief tussle right behind their both missing power punches only thirty-five seconds into round two. Mayweather’s reaction is fulsome. He darts back with head and body and momentarily gives up the support of his leading foot. When Juan Manuel Marquez fought Mayweather what meager success he had was born of feinting, feinting Mayweather out of position then chasing him with a long right hand. This is a punch that a less experienced fighter wouldn’t chuck at Money if he boxed him for forty rounds, but Marquez knew that once he had feinted Mayweather out of position and into a lean or a slip for a nonexistent punch he became, momentarily, just like any other fighter. For Oscar, it is worth more than it would be worth to Marquez because it is a second layer in his controlling offence. It is not something that scores De La Hoya any points, but it leads Mayweather a little further down the garden path, it’s a secondary way to take control of distance and timing, Mayweather territory.

Mayweather’s immediate reaction is fascinating. He backs up whilst throwing out a tentative, nothing jab. He’s fully engaged, jabbing with a great jabber, trying to deliver on pure backfoot tactics against a larger opponent who is jabbing at him when he is trying to counter. He’s certainly not being dominated and he rolls most of Oscar’s best punches, but he’s gone from fighting his dream fight in the first round to the best fight De La Hoya could have hoped for in the second.

Then, the mystery. Halfway through the fight, Oscar abandoned his jab.

Theories as to why crammed internet message boards for days afterwards, not least due to the man’s own feeble “it wasn’t to be the night of the jab” explanation. This vacuum of information has led to rife speculation, most commonly that Floyd countered the jab out of Oscar’s arsenal through the fifth. This did not happen. In fact, Oscar was countered more in that second round than he was in fifth, a round in which only one of his six jabs were countered. My best guess, partially confirmed by remarks made after the fight by De La Hoya cornerman Freddie Roach, was that he had become tired, had lost a step and that he just found himself too far behind the fleet-footed Floyd to get set and jab at him. Mayweather’s resulting takeover was rapid, near complete, and enough to get him the split decision on the cards.

None of this is to suggest that a world-class jab stuck to a twelve-round fighter is enough to beat a fighter like Mayweather. As we’ve seen, even to steal four of the first six rounds, it takes more. But a fighter who has those things, and the imagination, physicality or dynamism to provide more individual but intertwined challenges might be able to do it.





Anything else need sorting whilst I'm here?
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:17 PM   #5670
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Poor article if you ask me.
thanks for that detailed anaysis
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