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View Poll Results: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is now meaningless?
Agree 333 48.12%
Disagree 359 51.88%
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:51 AM   #5116
D4thincarnation
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

[quote=mrjotatp4p;14106444]
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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post

And what did Cotto use to back Mayweather up? The ****ing jab you idiot.
So why does Mayweather struggle with the jab?

Still waiting
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:52 AM   #5117
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

Maybe you can find a quote somewhere where someone will tell you the answer.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:02 PM   #5118
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
So why does Mayweather struggle with the jab?

Still waiting

Mayweather’s first round against De La Hoya was a dream. Oscar shuffled forward bereft of any plan other than being big and somehow getting Floyd to march back to the ropes based upon his size. He fought square and jabless. Floyd on the other hand moved gracefully, jabbed with an uncharacteristic frequency, sometimes varying with an affective hook. Oscar didn’t land a significant punch and was quickly smothered on the one occasion he managed to get Floyd to the ropes. No problems were set for the pound-for-pound champ in that first. Mayweather controlled the center of the ring with his footwork and his left hand alone.

In the second, everything changed. It changed because De La Hoya started throwing his jab.

Oscar De La Hoya’s jab became a subject of some controversy when Emanuel Steward labeled it one of the very finest in history. I’m not sure that this statement can be justified, but when his jab is at its very best, as it was against Felix Trinidad or Miguel Gonzalez, it is an exceptional one. Over the next few rounds it would become the most significant weapon in De La Hoya’s bid to unseat the pound-for-pound #1. This, in many ways, was something of a surprise. Mayweather had opened jabbing forcefully and was De La Hoya’s technical superior. Generally “The Golden Boy” doesn’t do well jabbing with jabbers. Whitaker and Quartey are examples of top-class jabbers who have out-jabbed him, but more recently even Felix Sturm had arguably won that particular technical battle against De La Hoya.

Regardless, the first three punches Oscar threw in that second round were jabs and Mayweather, suddenly, was banished from the center of the ring. This is the first key ingredient in jabbing Mayweather. He needs to be taken to the ropes by more than just crowding and badgering. Mayweather respects and is alert to a jab that gains his attention. It’s the punch which most quickly reduces the deficit in hand speed he has over most opponents.

Secondly, it is a points gatherer. The jab is to modern boxing what world peace is to Miss Universe; to whit, you need to put it out there if you want to impress the judges. Taking control of the fight against Mayweather has proven so difficult for a succession of opponents that many of them have forgotten to fight whilst they are moving him back. The jab should be the weapon of choice.

Finally, Mayweather is a punch-picker extraordinaire. Those wishing to undermine him deride this skill as only being the type of hit-and-run tactics that saw him booed and in tears after the Carlos Baldomir fight. This is not the case. Mayweather picks the right punch. That’s a gift. But it takes time, in the fight, to perfect. He likes to measure his man. He likes to come to understand him. He likes to find the *****s in his armor that he can exploit. He’s a very specific fighter. The jab is the most general punch to deal with but the one that can be thrown with the most variety.
Mayweather couldn‘t match that jab. This meant that he was firmly on the backfoot. Mayweather punches from the backfoot as well as anyone in boxing, but a breach of the laws of physics are something that even Money can’t buy. There is an excellent demonstration of this just twenty seconds into that second round when De La Hoya decided he would lead with the right. It missed by an Irish country mile. What was interesting was that Mayweather also missed with his counter. He had scored with a near identical punch at around the same time in round one. The reason Floyd was now missing was that he was now leaning away, trying to slip Oscar’s jabs as opposed to in behind his own jabs. Even the most graceful of fighters needs a moment to make that adjustment and punch.

And that’s it. In one strategically shift the fight was changed and Oscar was in charge. Fighting Mayweather cannot be about strategy alone however. Rather, a strategically quilt needs to be sewn together from a series of specific tactics. Mayweather’s adaptability, intrinsic ability and exceptional technical acumen needs to be offset by specific detail rather than any grand plan. “I’ll do my thing and let him worry about me” will get you beaten, but “use good head movement, move forward behind a jab, try to pin him on the ropes” will get you just as beaten, even if it is by a smaller margin.

As a speedster and technician whose job it is to avoid being landed on first, Mayweather now had a full plate in front of him. Furthermore he is engaged at a higher level by virtue of the fact that he has been set a specific problem. What Oscar has to do now is set him another one.
Not a great feinter, De La Hoya tries his luck after their brief tussle right behind their both missing power punches only thirty-five seconds into round two. Mayweather’s reaction is fulsome. He darts back with head and body and momentarily gives up the support of his leading foot. When Juan Manuel Marquez fought Mayweather what meager success he had was born of feinting, feinting Mayweather out of position then chasing him with a long right hand. This is a punch that a less experienced fighter wouldn’t chuck at Money if he boxed him for forty rounds, but Marquez knew that once he had feinted Mayweather out of position and into a lean or a slip for a nonexistent punch he became, momentarily, just like any other fighter. For Oscar, it is worth more than it would be worth to Marquez because it is a second layer in his controlling offence. It is not something that scores De La Hoya any points, but it leads Mayweather a little further down the garden path, it’s a secondary way to take control of distance and timing, Mayweather territory.

Mayweather’s immediate reaction is fascinating. He backs up whilst throwing out a tentative, nothing jab. He’s fully engaged, jabbing with a great jabber, trying to deliver on pure backfoot tactics against a larger opponent who is jabbing at him when he is trying to counter. He’s certainly not being dominated and he rolls most of Oscar’s best punches, but he’s gone from fighting his dream fight in the first round to the best fight De La Hoya could have hoped for in the second.

Then, the mystery. Halfway through the fight, Oscar abandoned his jab.

Theories as to why crammed internet message boards for days afterwards, not least due to the man’s own feeble “it wasn’t to be the night of the jab” explanation. This vacuum of information has led to rife speculation, most commonly that Floyd countered the jab out of Oscar’s arsenal through the fifth. This did not happen. In fact, Oscar was countered more in that second round than he was in fifth, a round in which only one of his six jabs were countered. My best guess, partially confirmed by remarks made after the fight by De La Hoya cornerman Freddie Roach, was that he had become tired, had lost a step and that he just found himself too far behind the fleet-footed Floyd to get set and jab at him. Mayweather’s resulting takeover was rapid, near complete, and enough to get him the split decision on the cards.

None of this is to suggest that a world-class jab stuck to a twelve-round fighter is enough to beat a fighter like Mayweather. As we’ve seen, even to steal four of the first six rounds, it takes more. But a fighter who has those things, and the imagination, physicality or dynamism to provide more individual but intertwined challenges might be able to do it.





Anything else need sorting whilst I'm here?
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:17 PM   #5119
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
Poor article if you ask me.
thanks for that detailed anaysis
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:22 PM   #5120
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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thanks for that detailed anaysis
I did make my views known on the matter in a few points after that comment.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:54 PM   #5121
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by JohnAnthony View Post
i disagree. He has success against southpaws when he walks them down with a high guard. When he doesn't he struggles.

I'd love it if he tried to walk manny down with a high guard.

The Manny fight would earn floyd more money than any other fight. It would also boost him in legacy rankings into one of the greatest of all time - Boosting his future earning s in future fights and advertising to rediculous levels.

If it was easy, he would have just fought him by now
What would happen if he did fight Manny like that?

You seriously over-rate Manny
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:00 PM   #5122
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Default Re: The "Whine About Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

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What would happen if he did fight Manny like that?

You seriously over-rate Manny
Fighter of the Decade bro, deal with it
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #5123
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Exclamation Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather will never fight Pacquiao.

Oct 31, 2012, ESNEWS.

Oscar De La Hoya:

'' The bottom line is, and this is coming from Mayweather, and i'm not speaking for nobody, is that If Bob Arum is involved with Manny Pacquiao then Mayweather does not want to fight him''.

''That's the bottom line''.

Skip to: 0:12

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmOkSlWmtE[/ame]
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:25 PM   #5124
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

Well the fight will NEVER happen cause Manny just signed a year extension.......lets move on
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:29 PM   #5125
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

Duh. Hasent Mayweather not fought a Top Rank fighter since he split from Arum?
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:30 PM   #5126
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by larryx2012 View Post
Well the fight will NEVER happen cause Manny just signed a year extension.......lets move on

It does look that way.

If Arum is involved, Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:32 PM   #5127
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

This is news?

Arum hasn't been keen on the fight or any fight since Oscar/Floyd left and made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ together without his crooked ass.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #5128
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
This is news?

Arum hasn't been keen on the fight or any fight since Oscar/Floyd left and made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ together without his crooked ass.
He hasn't been keen on making the fight STRICTLY on Floyd's terms, just as Floyd would not if Arum tried to call all the shots. But of course, this would just be another roadblock from Mayweather that for some odd reason, idiots like you cannot see. Tests? Pac agreed. Date/venue? Pac agreed. Purse parity in favor of Floyd? Pac agreed. Now Floyd expects this fight to be made w/o Pac's own promoter. How ****in gullible are you? Oh wait, maybe this is just another stipulation, right Beiber?
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #5129
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance_Uppercut View Post
He hasn't been keen on making the fight STRICTLY on Floyd's terms, just as Floyd would not if Arum tried to call all the shots. But of course, this would just be another roadblock from Mayweather that for some odd reason, idiots like you cannot see. Tests? Pac agreed. Date/venue? Pac agreed. Purse parity in favor of Floyd? Pac agreed. Now Floyd expects this fight to be made w/o Pac's own promoter. How ****in gullible are you? Oh wait, maybe this is just another stipulation, right Beiber?
What's wrong with you

Did Arum not say a goddamn stadium needed to be built

A cut needed to heal

He didn't know who to ring

He wasn't answering the calls

He wanted Pac - JMM IV

etc

etc

Don't try to make this out like Arum is keen for it to happen because that's pure stupidity
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:45 PM   #5130
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Default Re: Oscar:If Arum is involved,Mayweather will never fight Pacquiao.

Can't blame Floyd. He is probably angry at his old self for being naive and allowing Arum to take advantage of him and he doesn't want to do it again.

You can knock him for letting a personal vendetta get in the way of the sport and the fans, but who really cares about this fight anymore anyways?

The luster has worn off both Floyd and Pacquiao, neither one is still in their prime, and at this point any fight between them would be anti-climatic at best. Plenty of good fights in the sport without them.
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