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View Poll Results: If you were Joe Calzaghe will you come out of retirement to fight Ward
Yes 78 19.40%
no 324 80.60%
Voters: 402. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2012, 05:07 PM   #541
general zod
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by Imperial1 View Post
Wait they would also need Frank W. a r r. En. To co sign on that as well.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:20 PM   #542
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Yeah? Hopkins backed out. why go to America? For who?
Hopkins pulled out because of the terms of the offer not because he was avoiding Calzaghe
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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Jones offered MW Hopkins also
No
HBO wanted that fight
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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
shows that you didnt need to be in the same division at all.
T Bradley got offered a shot at Pacquiao, but I dont recall him going to the Philippeans calling Pac out
1: Bradley was always planning to move up which is why he fought Abregu at ww
2: Pacquiao fights in America
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
They have TVs in America and fans knew who Calzaghe was.
Calzaghe was basically unknown in America until he fought Lacy back in 06
It should be pointed out that even then American fans never warmed to him
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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Self pwned again with that one Loudon
Such as this one
****** never made one offer to Jones.

In order for him to do that he would of needed the green light from HBO. Show me one article where a member of HBo says that talks are in place or any offers have been made?
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:27 PM   #543
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
DM wasnt an avenue that Jones explored and they were in the same division and DM the rightful
He made numerous offers to Daruisz including asking him to share a double header to generate interest for the fight and Dariusz refused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Are you denying that Hopkins pulled out or that Calzaghe agreed to fight in America for those fights.
He never pulled out of the Calzaghe fight. He pulled out of the Hakkar fight, and then Showtime withdrew their offer
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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
He made an offer he called Roy out. Thats how and you know that
Collins also called out Jones and Dibella said he would not ok that fight because no one knew who Collins was. Interest would have to pick up before he would allow such a fight. Calzaghe refused to fight in America he wouldn't even promote his fights in America, which is why Showtime reduced his purses

Calzaghe had his chance back in 99 and he said himself said did not want to fight Jones. The Dariusz M fight was much easier for Calzaghe to make and he looked the other way. Just like he looked the other way at the Pavlik fight
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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
You know he called out Jones at the end of 01 after McIntyre - Correct?
He never made ANY offers
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:31 PM   #544
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Calzaghe speaks with no conviction whatsoever in that video. Even Tim Westwood was dubious and called him out by saying Roy was in a different weight class. Joe was blowing smoke, its as clear as day.
Quote:
He has no particular desire to test himself against the very best, such as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] light-heavyweight champ Roy Jones.

Calzaghe added: "I'm not chasing after Roy Jones. Be honest, Roy Jones is a good fighter and I don't want tough fights, I just want big money.

"I just want to make sure I never have to work again. I've got mouths to feed and that's the most important thing."

But Calzaghe, who possesses frightening self-belief, would not turn down a challenge to Jones or anybody else.

In stating that he is the finest boxer in Welsh history he is placing himself above some of the greatest names in the sport.

They include [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], world champion for seven years between 1916 and 1923 and winner of 132 of his 153 professional contests.

Former world heavyweight champ Gene Tunney labelled Wilde "the finest fighter I ever saw".

Calzaghe said: "I think I'm the best champion by far to come out of this country.

"This country hasn't had much to shout about in sport but it will have now. It's not to disrespect others like Jimmy Wilde. But I know I'm the main man." Calzaghe struggled in his last defence, against Robin Reid in March.

He failed to impress the watching executives from American TV network [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], who hold the key to his financial future.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:33 PM   #545
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
The greatest SMW ever
Andre Ward
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:10 AM   #546
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Reader View Post
You admit Calzaghe was not willing to drop his belt and move up to Roy's weight... That is all I am saying, he never "chased" him...
He was willing to drop his belt, but only if he was definate to get the fight.
No problem with that, and I have shown enough proof that he chased him.
If he didnt want to fight him, he would never have mentioned his name or put offers forward.
Quote:
Tarver chased him, an argument can be made that Collins chased him, Calzaghe never did anything more than talk. And contradicted himself at times.. Like you said, he was not willing to give up his belt and move up, and fight in Roy's weight class... Had he done that, and beat some LHW contenders, calling Jones out after the fights, would be chasing him.
It made no sense to give up his belt as that is what made him money and was his draw. Without it, he would have been a LHW who may have never got a shot.
Tarver got his shot in alot of ways due to local rivalry.
Yeah Collins is a good example, he chased Jones also and got completely ignored. Though that doesnt suit your arguement
Quote:
For how many offers Joe made Roy, just as many quotes can be pulled up about Joe not wanting to fight him.
I have read of 2 for sure.
Also if you read the other link there was another where after Calzaghe fights Woodhall, Jones said he was coming down to SMW and they agreed only Jones changed his mind, stayed at LHW and fought others. Read the links
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And don't post anything that has to do with their fight in 2008.. they were both lying out there teeth then to try to promote their fight.
I gave links for 00, 01 and 02.
Why would they both be lying?
Makes no sense for both to lie.
You see, because you couldnt argue against anything, you now accuse both Jones and Joe of lying
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:32 AM   #547
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Bailey,
Part 1.

And?? So was Glen Johnson, who knocked Roy cold, 4 years earlier. I want to meet someone who genuinely thinks that Glen Johnson was a better fighter than Roy.
Roy was back adjusted at the weight when he fought Calzaghe, he was still struggling when he fought Johnson
Quote:
I'm not going to list what I think are Jirov's best wins, for you to argue otherwise. You said people rated Toney's win as great. I'm saying it was a good win. Jirov was good, and it was a good win. That's all.
So you have ducked the question completely
Tell me what wins Jirov had that made him so good. Give me 2 then
Quote:
Why are you arguing? I know a lot of fighters haven't. That's fine. Joe's win over Kessler was very good. But my original point, was that he hadn't beaten any elite fighters. We'll leave it there.
Then you dont have a massive point. But like I said Calzaghe has the victories over Eubank, Hopkins and Jones safely under his undefeated belt
Quote:
What's wrong with you? You are showing yourself up, by continuously bringing it up. I said I thought that....... and then you came back and said I was mistaken. Fair enough. I wasn't pretending to know, and I wasn't passing anything off, it was a question. Move on!
Alright Loudon, we will forget that other little mistake of yours
Quote:
Even when I agree with you, you still try and argue. Eubank was a very good win. But Eubank was at the end of his career, and he wasn't at his best. That's all I'm saying.
You have ducked things nicely again.
Eubank was at the end of his career, but that doesnt mean he was shot, as proven with how he pushed a massive punching CW champ, when not even a true CW. How was that not close to his best?
Quote:
This is where you let yourself down badly. It's one rule for one fighter, and another rule for fighters you don't like. You've asked this question, and I agree with your point, and it's hard for me to give you a name. However, you give Roy ZERO credit for going upto heavy and beating Ruiz, who was far from great, but who'd knocked down and beaten Holy, and who was effective. How many fighters in the history of the sport have done what Roy did? He was the first person in 106 years to do it.
I always gave Roy credit until so much came about that he could have been cheating. Read your buddy Zods threads. I just dont approve of cheating. Guess its different for you?
Quote:
If you think he'd have fought Roy for less than a million, fine.
Possibly not but as Roy wanted 10 mil. But...
YOU DONT KNOW
Quote:
In this case, it's a very safe assumption to make.
YOU DONT KNOW THAT




Quote:
Was Joe only getting 50k a fight?
Where have I said that?
I havent. You say you are an intelligent person so I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and presume you just havent read things properly. This is not the first time I have had to explain this to you, so I can only think you are not as bright as you like to think you are, but here goes.
I gave an example about someone saying about wanting the crown jewels and nothing about Calzaghe/Jones, but several times you have got confused, so for the last time read again and understand 50k is not about Calzaghe but an example figure used.
Here is what I wrote when explaining it to you a 2nd time. Try and follow it again where I highlight details to you.
I noted that if someone (someone could be anyone here) was getting 50k a fight and said they wanted the crown jewels to fight fighter x (x could be anyone also) and was offered 500k, they would probably take it as its far more than normal to what they get paid. Its not millions as you try and make out.
I was trying to give an example to this intelligent guy, that he could understand

Now do you understand the example a bit more? Hopefully 3rd time lucky
Quote:
Do you seriously think that when he made the comment, he was referring to thousands as opposed to millions? Seriously
WE DONT KNOW, BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW WHAT HE WAS GETTING. Hopefully the example above will help you out.
YOU DONT KNOW

I notice since we have broken down what you do and dont know, your posts have become weaker and with even less substance
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:41 AM   #548
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

the answer is no. joe retired like he was suppose to and thats after he did what he wanted to do in the sport. hopkins and jones jr were in joe's era and beat them.ward and the rest of those guys are in a new era and only fantasy matches should be made in your head were you predict the outcome. joe is older and passed his prime and i would only fight ward in my prime. ward would beat him in us i dont know how they would call it in the uk. but ward is a better fighter and boxer the joe thats a fact.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:50 AM   #549
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by platnumpapi View Post
the answer is no. joe retired like he was suppose to and thats after he did what he wanted to do in the sport. hopkins and jones jr were in joe's era and beat them.ward and the rest of those guys are in a new era and only fantasy matches should be made in your head were you predict the outcome. joe is older and passed his prime and i would only fight ward in my prime. ward would beat him in us i dont know how they would call it in the uk. but ward is a better fighter and boxer the joe thats a fact.
Its no fact at all its your opinion simples....
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:52 AM   #550
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Mind Reader,

Hi mate, can you give me and Bailey your honest opinion, regarding how well known Joe was in the U.S. during his career?

Many Thanks!

Loudon.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:58 AM   #551
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by platnumpapi View Post
but ward is a better fighter and boxer the joe thats a fact.
Ah, well, that's not a fact because that can only be proven if Ward beat Calzaghe when they were both at the top of their game.

You can make the case that Ward has had a much stronger start to his career than Calzaghe, and you can argue that his resume is stronger overall - taking into account the nobodies Calzaghe fought to balance against the former world champions and Hopkins - but that's about it.

Calzaghe would have beaten everyone Ward's beaten, while I'm not sure that - at this point in his career - the same could be said in reverse because Ward has yet to face anyone with the skills of the 2008 version of Hopkins. Other than Hopkins, Ward would probably beat everyone on Calzaghe's resume (though I'm sure even the declining Eubank would give him a difficult time).

The only thing that can be said with utter certainty is that Ward is the best Super Middleweight of the current era, of the post-Calzaghe era and can be ranked along side the best in the divisions history.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:13 AM   #552
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Part 2.
He didn't make an offer at that point, because Joe was at the bottom of his 3 man list. Murad was trying to get the Ruiz fight. All Joe was, was a small possibility until Murad came back to Roy with a definite answer either way. Tarver was second on the list, because it's a fight people were talking about, for more money, at 175. Joe was nothing more than a possibility. As soon as Murad came back with a yes, Joe was instantly forgotten about.
Yes he did make an offer.
Jones said he wanted Calzaghe and then Ruiz

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Once again Loudon you didnt read the links and walked right into a solid counter
Quote:
Roy said "I know he's wanted to fight me for a while." He said that, because Joe had told him in the pre fight build up. Roy didn't say "Joe's been chasing me hard for 5 or 6 years!"
So you know this?
Show me where Calzaghe said he told Roy and where you got this info from, because it doesnt say that on the link I gave you.

Once again you are making things up and getting yourself tied up by not sticking to facts
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That is relevant how??
Very relevant as you keep saying things like the likes of McIntyre, when Calzaghe called out Jones, so you must have been aware that McIntyre was a late sub and that was why that fight happend.
Im guessing its something else you didnt know and were not aware of when arguing
Quote:
Is the usual way, mentioning someone's name, and then not doing anything else, and just carrying on, doing what you've been doing?

Joe made the claims, and then did nothing! He continued to fight in Britain at the same weight. How was that going to land Roy, who fought at 175 in America? You can't answer me!
I think its you that cant answer me, I have answered you and given links. You havent.
He made offers and called him out.
As said dropping his belt to lose money to fight as an unknown for a fight that may not happen wouldnt have been wise and you know that. So he made the offers and agreed to go up and to America if the fight was made and what shows you up even more is that when the fight was agreed, he did just that.
Now Calzaghe called Jones out and made offers, so what did O Grant do to get the fight as a MW?
What did LMW S Dzinziruk do to get the Martinez MW fight?
What did Bradley do in the weight below to get the Pac fight when he was avoiding Khan?
These fighters didnt do as much calling out as Calzaghe and to my knowledge didnt make the offers Calzaghe made.
You have never been able to answer these points Loudon whilst I answer you questions.
Dont just answer with they agreed to fight in America at a certain weight because Calzaghe agreed that all along. So your answer is?
Quote:
He baked a cake, and then took it round to Roy's farm in Pensacola.
Show me Zods link he would have PMd you.
If that is true, then it makes you wonder why Roy would accept a cake off one fighter but wanted 10mil off another
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Yes he fought Brewer too, and the same applies. How was beating Brewer at 168, going to land Roy for big money up at 175??
A named American, bigger than R Frazier
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He fought Jiminez in Britain. I didn't mean in his garden.
A mandatory yes, and in a different country. Same as Jones fighting Frazier a mandatory in America, hardly going to get DM in Germany with that
Quote:
I was classing Britain as home
Very ignorant of you




Quote:
Again, beating Byron Mitchell wasn't going to get anyone talking about a fight with Roy at 175. If he'd have been as serious to fight Roy, as what you believe, he'd have moved up before 2008, but he didn't did he?
How many times. Moving uop would have been losing his title for no reason. If Jones would fight him, he agreed.
But and please answer..
Why move up for a fight that might not happen when you agreed to move up if the fight is agreed?
Why drop a world title to earn less?
Why drop a world title and fight in a country where you will not earn as much and not be an attraction at all for a fight you may not get?
Why when you have made offers to a fighter who has changed his mnd so many times would you do that?
Why would you do that when the ( champ DM ) champ couldnt get the fight?
Quote:
Yes, but at the time, he was hoping to fight DM, and was making enquiries into moving up to heavy.
Further solidifies what I wrote above.
DM was calling Roy out in the ring mag, agreed to go to America, was the champ and Jones did not want to know.
Add DM to the list with Eubank, Benn, Collins, Tiozzo, Rocchigiani, Nunn, Maske and you think Calzaghe was going to be given a shot by chasing Roy . You could add Erdei later down the line
Quote:
Fair comment, but Roy fought for HBO, and Joe was unknown to Amercan fans, so it was unrealistic. Do I think He wanted 10 million? No. Even Joe wouldn't have been stupid enough to have wanted that amount. But he wanted millions rather than thousands, and I think that's obvious.
YOU DONT KNOW WHAT HE WANTED LOUDON .
Calzaghe wasnt that unknown he had been on American TV and Jones knew who he was and he was a bigger fight than O Grant.
Did America know Dzinziruk prior to his fight with Martinez?
Quote:
Stop being an idiot. I think you trying to imply that Joe would have possibly fought Roy for thousands, and not millions, is absolutely hilarious
YOU DONT KNOW! We know Roy wanted 10 mil, but you speak for Jones and say you dont think he really wanted that .
You dont know. I gave you an example where if a fighter was only getting x amount and was offered 10x more they would probably jump at it even if its not millions. YOU DONT KNOW
Quote:
He was known to Roy. Again it was Roy's job to know him.

However, Joe WASN'T KNOWN, TO THE AMERICAN PPV AUDIENCE.
Joe seemed to be known on the Tyson undercard and some of his fights were on American TV

Was O Grant known then?
Frazier a good PPV
or Woods who had lost to calzaghe victim Starie?
Quote:
Yes I get that, but Joe was talking about fighting the best fighter in the world!
Thought you did and then looked below
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Do you think Joe was getting 50k a fight?
No idea, I expect he was getting more, but dont know for sure to make comments like you seem to be able to do
Quote:
Do you think when he mentioned wanting the crown jewels, he was talking about 500K?
YOU DONT KNOW and if Jones wanted 10 mil, I expect there would be a mil in it for Calzaghe, but like you DONT KNOW the amount
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I never said he was a mandatory. You don't know??

Oh I think you do!
What are you going on about?
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Such as, he never fought at Roy's weight or in Roy's Country til 2008.
Never needed to. He put the offer forward and Jones didnt want it. When the LHW champ agreed to fight him, he took it and also lets not forget, Calzaghe hadnt fought in America when Hopkins agreed to fight him, so hadnt made this fanbase you mention, but the champ agreed and he took it, like he said he would if Jones agreed. The actions spoke there Loudon and made your arguements look weak
Quote:
Is that my opinion, or is that a fact?
He had never fought in America, but he hadnt when Hopkins agreed to fight him both times either but, like he said he would with Jones agreed the terms and took the fights.
The fact you had to ask above looks bad on you as you dont know

Looks like you have been blown out the water again.
Calzaghe agreed to got to America and did when given the offer.
Calzaghe didnt need to fight in America previously for his fights with Hopkins or Jones to gather attention
Calzaghe agreed to drop the belt and fight at the higher weight when they gave him a shot

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:52 AM   #553
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote=bailey;14111614][quote]

Quote:
Roy was back adjusted at the weight when he fought Calzaghe, he was still struggling when he fought Johnson
Haha! He was 9 weeks from his 40th Birthday. Joe's only 40 now, and people are saying he'd be crazy to come back at this stage. Roy was nearly 40, and Joe had dismissed him three times, but according to you it's a good win. Had Roy adjusted to the weight when Green knocked him out in under three mins? Stop embarrassing yourself! Even Joe himself knows the win was worthless. He himself said that the fight would be pointless, just a year before they actually fought. So why are you trying to argue, when Joe himself knows that it was worthless.

Quote:
So you have ducked the question completely
Tell me what wins Jirov had that made him so good. Give me 2 then
I haven't answered the question, BECAUSE whatever I say, you'll argue against it. But why are you arguing anyway? I agree with you, that it wasn't a great win. I think it's a good win. Do you not think it was a good win for Toney? If not, please tell me why? Thanks.

Quote:
Then you dont have a massive point. But like I said Calzaghe has the victories over Eubank, Hopkins and Jones safely under his undefeated belt
I never said I had a massive point. Once again, your arguing, where there's no need to. We know he's got those victories under his belt. And?

Quote:
Alright Loudon, we will forget that other little mistake of yours
You have ducked things nicely again.
Ha! Have you had a bump on your head?

Quote:
Eubank was at the end of his career, but that doesnt mean he was shot, as proven with how he pushed a massive punching CW champ, when not even a true CW. How was that not close to his best?
I didn't say he was shot! I agree it was a good win for Joe. All I said was, Eubank wasn't at his absolute peak. Stop arguing you fruitcake!

Quote:
I always gave Roy credit until so much came about that he could have been cheating. Read your buddy Zods threads. I just dont approve of cheating. Guess its different for you?
I don't advocate cheating in any way. But my personal opinion is, if they'd have been anything in it, his critics, the media, and all of the Organisations he represented, would have jumped on him. He represented a lot of people. HBO, Nike, the WBA, WBC, IBF, etc, he fought in places like New York, under their watch. So you're not telling me that it was all swept under the carpet, and everyone was corrupt and pretended it didn't happen? I don't believe that.

By the way, there's no way I'm going to get into a debate with you regarding this, because It's been done to death with Headbanger ages ago. So dont bother copying and pasting everything I've seen before, because I've got nothing else to say on the subject. If you want my exact opinion, you can look at my history. Thanks.


Quote:
Possibly not but as Roy wanted 10 mil. But...
YOU DONT KNOW
YOU DONT KNOW THAT
Anybody with an ounce of intelligence, knows that he wouldn't have fought Roy for less than a million.


Quote:
Where have I said that?
I havent. You say you are an intelligent person so I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and presume you just havent read things properly. This is not the first time I have had to explain this to you, so I can only think you are not as bright as you like to think you are, but here goes.
It was in the poor example that you used.

Quote:
I gave an example about someone saying about wanting the crown jewels and nothing about Calzaghe/Jones, but several times you have got confused, so for the last time read again and understand 50k is not about Calzaghe but an example figure used.
Here is what I wrote when explaining it to you a 2nd time. Try and follow it again where I highlight details to you.
I noted that if someone (someone could be anyone here) was getting 50k a fight and said they wanted the crown jewels to fight fighter x (x could be anyone also) and was offered 500k, they would probably take it as its far more than normal to what they get paid. Its not millions as you try and make out.
I was trying to give an example to this intelligent guy, that he could understand
I'm well aware it was an example, you idiot.

Again it was a poor example to use. I understand exactly what you're saying. But we're talking about Joe Calzaghe fighting the Worlds best fighter. So the circumstances are completely different.

If you were talking about a journeyman boxer, then yes it would be a good example.

But again, we're talking about Joe moving up and fighting one of the greatest ever fighters. Ok?

I understand what you meant, but it was a poor example.

Quote:
I notice since we have broken down what you do and dont know, your posts have become weaker and with even less substance.
Weaker?


Regards, Loudon.

Last edited by Loudon; 11-01-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:03 AM   #554
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Part 2.

Quote:

Yes he did make an offer.

Jones said he wanted Calzaghe and then Ruiz



[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



Once again Loudon you didnt read the links and walked right into a solid counter

I've read your link, and what does it say exactly? It says Frank was going to New York for discussions, and that's it. Roy's representatives probably also had brief discussions with Tarver's team aswell, around the same time.

Once again, Joe was just a possibility, until Murad had a definite answer on Ruiz. As soon Roy got the green light, Joe was dismissed. But in your world, that was a duck right?

His choices were,

To fight for a version of the heavyweight title.

To fight Tarver in a grudge fight, at his weight.

To fight Joe, who was relatively unknown, who fought at a different weight.


Quote:

So you know this?

Show me where Calzaghe said he told Roy and where you got this info from, because it doesnt say that on the link I gave you.

You SHOW ME where Roy confirms that Joe was chasing him for 5 or 6 years. He said "I know he's wanted to fight me for a while" That doesn't PROVE that Joe chased him for 5 or 6 years!


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Once again you are making things up and getting yourself tied up by not sticking to facts

Very relevant as you keep saying things like the likes of McIntyre, when Calzaghe called out Jones, so you must have been aware that McIntyre was a late sub and that was why that fight happend.

Im guessing its something else you didnt know and were not aware of when arguing

All he did, was mention Roy's name. What did he do after? Did he move up, or go to America? NO! He continued to fight at 168 in Britain.

If you think that is chasing a fight, then you're crazy!


Quote:

I think its you that cant answer me, I have answered you and given links. You havent.

He made offers and called him out.

As said dropping his belt to lose money to fight as an unknown for a fight that may not happen wouldnt have been wise and you know that. So he made the offers and agreed to go up and to America if the fight was made and what shows you up even more is that when the fight was agreed, he did just that.

Now Calzaghe called Jones out and made offers, so what did O Grant do to get the fight as a MW?

What did LMW S Dzinziruk do to get the Martinez MW fight?

What did Bradley do in the weight below to get the Pac fight when he was avoiding Khan?

These fighters didnt do as much calling out as Calzaghe and to my knowledge didnt make the offers Calzaghe made.

You have never been able to answer these points Loudon whilst I answer you questions.

Dont just answer with they agreed to fight in America at acertain weight because Calzaghe agreed that all along. So your answer is?

My answer is, you need to go and see your GP.

You don't use logic, or take circumstances into consideration when you have these debates.

Joe Calzaghe in 2001, was nobody to Roy Jones and his team. He was also, a nobody to HBO, and to the American fight fans.

He mentioned Roy's name, and then did nothing.


Try and put yourself in Roy's shoes, and see things from his perspective.

In 2001, he was trying to get a fight with DM, and was under pressure from fans to try and make the Hopkins rematch. He was the unified 175 champ.

Do you seriously think, that Roy at the time, would have given a seconds thought to Joe's comments after he'd beaten McIntyre?

The fact that Joe didn't fight at 175, or in America, speakes volumes! That fact shows me just how serious he was. He was going up in 2001, but he didn't get there. In 2004, he himself said, I know I have to move up. Barry McGuigan in the same year, said he's got to move up at this point. He didn't get there til 2008!


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Show me Zods link he would have PMd you.

If that is true, then it makes you wonder why Roy would accept a cake off one fighter but wanted 10mil off another

Haha! It'd got Roy's favourite icing on. If Collins and Joe had've known the recipe, Roy might have fought them both for free. He loves his cake!


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A named American, bigger than R Frazier

That's IRRELEVANT! We're not talking about Roy's opponents. We're talking about Joe's! Frazier was a mandatory at 175. Joe fought at 168.

For the millionth time, beating Brewer and Jiminez, at a weight divison below, wasn't going to get people interested in a Roy Jones fight at 175. If you can't see that, you're stupid!


Quote:

A mandatory yes, and in a different country. Same as Jones fighting Frazier a mandatory in America, hardly going to get DM in Germany with that
A ridiculous comparison!

Joe was relatively unknown, and fought in a different weight class.

Roy was considered the best fighter on the planet, and was the unified 175 champ!

DM would have got his opportunity, but he wouldn't go to America for the fight.


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Very ignorant of you

Why?

I said he wasn't going to get a shot at Roy by continuing to fight at home at 168.

Ok then, Britain, or the U.K.


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How many times. Moving uop would have been losing his title for no reason. If Jones would fight him, he agreed.

But and please answer..

Why move up for a fight that might not happen when you agreed to move up if the fight is agreed?

Why drop a world title to earn less?

Why drop a world title and fight in a country where you will not earn as much and not be an attraction at all for a fight you may not get?

Why when you have made offers to a fighter who has changed his mnd so many times would you do that?

Why would you do that when the ( champ DM ) champ couldnt get the fight?

You really don't get it do you.

He needed to put groundwork in like Ricky, or he needed DM's belt to tempt Roy into the fight.

We're going around in circles, like the vicious circle Joe found himself in.

Roy wasn't interested in 2002, because Joe wouldn't have been a big fight.


HOWEVER,

if Joe had have gone to the U.S. earlier, and made a name for himself, and put in good performances, then they might have have been interest in the fight. If fans had've wanted to have seen the fight, if there'd been a big demand, it would have been a more attractive proposition for Roy and HBO.

Likewise if, and it's a big if, but If, Joe could have taken DM's belt, then Roy would have wanted to have fought Joe to have all of the belts. Roy wanted to fight DM, he just wasn't prepared to go to Germany because he said things like "I don't think a knockout would guarantee me a win over there."

If Joe had've been an attractive proposition to Roy, HBO, and the general American public, then things would have been different.

Joe wanted to fight Roy for big money, which was fair enough, but he wasn't prepared to do the groundwork like Ricky Hatton.


So to summarize, what you're saying is, if Joe had've been guaranteed really good money, he'd have been willing to go to the U.S. and fight Roy.

That's what you're saying.

I can agree with that.

HOWEVER, he was never going to be guaranteed to get a shot at Roy for good money.

BECAUSE, he wasn't known enough at the time. He was stuck in a vicious circle, like the one I'm in with you.

If he'd have gone to America in 1999, when De Bella had opened the door for him, things may have turned out very different. But as you know, at the time of De Bella's offer, he said he wasn't chasing Roy, or wanting tough fights.

Last edited by Loudon; 11-01-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:04 AM   #555
Loudon
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Part 3.

Quote:
Why would you do that when the ( champ DM ) champ couldnt get the fight?
DM didn't want the fight! If he'd have gone to America, he COULD have had the fight.

Quote:

Further solidifies what I wrote above.

DM was calling Roy out in the ring mag, agreed to go to America, was the champ and Jones did not want to know.

Add DM to the list with Eubank, Benn, Collins, Tiozzo, Rocchigiani, Nunn, Maske and you think Calzaghe was going to be given a shot by chasing Roy . You could add Erdei later down the line

It doesn't solidify a thing!

DM called Roy out in The Ring Mag?

He wouldn't go to America for the fight!


Quote:
He agreed
He never went!


You're a complete idiot!

You know King wanted a 3 fight option on Roy.

You know Eubank didn't want big fights.

Collins hadn't fought in ages, he didn't have a belt, and HBO didn't want the fight.


He dismissed Collins, to fight Reggie Johnson to UNIFY the titles.

Why would he have wanted to fight Collins, when he had the opportunity to fight a better fighter to unify the division? Think about it!


Quote:

YOU DONT KNOW WHAT HE WANTED LOUDON .

Calzaghe wasnt that unknown he had been on American TV and Jones knew who he was and he was a bigger fight than O Grant.

Did America know Dzinziruk prior to his fight with Martinez?

YOU DONT KNOW!

He wasn't known ENOUGH, to make a fight with Roy, a big fight.

Why do you keep mentioning Grant every thread??

Grant was happy to fight at 175.

Joe was going to go up in 2001, but he didn't.

He was then going to go up in 2004, again he didn't.

He didn't go up til 2008.


He had to fight Manfredo to gain U.S. exposure in the penultimate year of his career!


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We know Roy wanted 10 mil, but you speak for Jones and say you dont think he really wanted that .

You dont know. I gave you an example where if a fighter was only getting x amount and was offered 10x more they would probably jump at it even if its not millions. YOU DONT KNOW
You can believe whatever you want.


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Joe seemed to be known on the Tyson undercard and some of his fights were on American TV

Was O Grant known then?

Frazier a good PPV

or Woods who had lost to calzaghe victim Starie?

He wasn't known ENOUGH to make it a big fight, for big money.

OMFG!

Grant fought Roy at 175!

Frazier and Woods were MANDATORIES AT 175!

JOE FOUGHT AT 168!!


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YOU DONT KNOW and if Jones wanted 10 mil, I expect there would be a mil in it for Calzaghe, but like you DONT KNOW the amount
Again, you can believe what you want to believe. If you read the comment in full, with him talking about his capabilites, it's safe to assume, that he was talking about a lot of money.

If you think it was under a million, that's fine. Let's leave it now, we've discussed it to death.


Quote:

Never needed to. He put the offer forward and Jones didnt want it. When the LHW champ agreed to fight him, he took it and also lets not forget, Calzaghe hadnt fought in America when Hopkins agreed to fight him, so hadnt made this fanbase you mention, but the champ agreed and he took it, like he said he would if Jones agreed. The actions spoke there Loudon and made your arguements look weak

Never needed to???????

Ha! HOW THE **** WAS HE GOING TO GET A ROY JONES FIGHT FOR THE CROWN JEWELS, without going to America, and fighting in Roy's weight class????

Why would Roy have wanted it at the time?

Joe was a nobody in the world of boxing, outside of Europe in 2002.


Quote:

He had never fought in America, but he hadnt when Hopkins agreed to fight him both times either but, like he said he would with Jones agreed the terms and took the fights.

The fact you had to ask above looks bad on you as you dont know

Looks like you have been blown out the water again.

Calzaghe agreed to got to America and did when given the offer.

Calzaghe didnt need to fight in America previously for his fights with Hopkins or Jones to gather attention

Calzaghe agreed to drop the belt and fight at the higher weight when they gave him a shot

Clueless!


Quote:
Calzaghe didnt need to fight in America previously for his fights with Hopkins or Jones to gather attention

The above quote from you, shows everybody on this forum, that you haven't got a CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

I don't think I can add anything else to this ridiculous quote!


Regards, Loudon.

Last edited by Loudon; 11-01-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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