If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[general zod]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

You really aren't doing very well are you ko?

Lost the debate on the Calzaghe-Pavlik talks
Lost the debate about Calzaghe's supposed previous offers to Pavlik
Lost the debate on Calzaghe missing every single southpaw worth mentioning

[general zod]

JOE CALZAGHE last night targeted the world's top light-heavyweights as he announced plans to move up a division this year.

The Welshman has set his sights on Mexico's Julio Gonzalez, who recently ended the long-standing WBO champion Darius Michalcewski's unbeaten record, and American Antonio Tarver, who was controversially outpointed by Roy Jones Junior, the IBO holder.

"I'm the best super-middleweight in the world and have done all I can," said WBO title-holder Calzaghe who has been shamelessly ducked by rival champion Sven Ottke, Germany's WBA and IBF champion.

His last fight at 12 stone will be a mandatory defence against Mger Mkrtchian of Armenia in Cardiff on February 21.

Calzaghe added: "Then I intend to move up and also hope to fight in America. It's no problem for me. The extra seven pounds will add to my punching power and my handspeed will make me even more dangerous against the bigger, slower men. I see nobody to fear in the light-heavyweight division."

He will automatically become the mandatory challenger to Gonzalez as the WBO have conferred "super champion" status on Calzaghe for making more than 10 defences of his title.

Promoter Frank ****** said: "The fights are there for Joe at light-heavy even though Roy Jones doesn't want to fight him - he's made it clear he wants to fight Mike Tyson and get out.

"But if Gonzalez won't meet him he will be stripped of his title and there's nowhere else Tarver can earn that sort of money."

[url]***********.thefreelibrary.com/Boxing%3a+I%27ll+weigh+in+with+a+move+up+and+title%2c+says+Joe.-a0111955050[/url]

In other words if he moved up after Brewer 02-03 he would of automatically become the mandatory challenger for Daruisz's title.

Instead of doing that he stayed at smw and fought:
Miguel Angel Jimenez
Tocker Pudwill
Byron Mitchell

I think I can safely say that Dariusz would of been a tougher fight, but like I said before Calzaghe always took the path of least resistance.

[Loudon]

Part 2.

He said he wanted Jones and his team made an offer. If he didn't make an offer, you would have a point, but they did.

By your points then very few fighters have called anyone out

Said he wanted to fight Jones or more than one link.

You see Loudon, I have you clutching at straws and trying to knit pick as the evidence weighs against you

I've answered these points about ten times now.

Links with dates of 2000, 2001 and 2002 and notes of offers and calling Jones out and you say its just talk

In 1999, he turned down the opportunity to go to America. He wasn't interested in Roy. He said he wasn't chasing him! THAT IS A FACT!

In 2000, Frank said, he MAY get an opportunity next year because Roy's contract with HBO has expired. Roy then re-signed shortly after.

In 2001, he mentioned Roy's name, and then he continued to fight at 168 in Britain.

In 2002, talks were held, but Roy dismissed him for Ruiz.

Are you thick Loudon? WHAT MONEY DID THEY WANT? YOU DONT KNOW

You're asking me if I'm thick? Ha! He mentioned his capabilities and said he'd want the crown jewels! He wasn't talking about £150! He was referring to a lot of money. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine!

Did the American fans know O Grant? C Woods, G Kelly, R Frazier?

How stupid are you? Really?

The circumstances were DIFFERENT!!

They didn't need to chase Roy, or to make an impression on the American public. Two of them were mandatories.

Joe wasn't a mandatory, because he fought in a different weight class. Therefore, he had to do things that guys like Clinton didn't.

Grant left his division for the one fight, like Joe agreed to do.

How much did Grant get? Zod says $300,000

Stop pretending that Joe would have fought for that amount.

You sound like you think Grant went on a mad LHW campaign. He didnt, so you saying he made Jones a cake or whatever is another dose of selfpwning on your part because Grant didnt do anything Calzaghe said he wasnt willing to do

He did, I'll see if Zod has any links. Grant was a master baker, and he said "Let me fight you, and I'll bake you the most amazing cake you've ever seen, and I'll bake one for your dogs too."

Completely different weight divisions. Calzaghe was known also, you just like to say he wasnt

Different weight divisions, but Bradley was well known. Again, Joe wasn't well known to American fight fans.

Media called for that fight. Castillo was after Hatton because he couldnt make weight, got made a top 3 fighter by the ring, was put on the Hatton undercard.

You think Ricky didn't want the fight with Castillo?

How did Hatton mock Floyd? He answered a question and no more, so show me this mocking. They were different weight divisions.

Did Hatton call out Floyd after he fought Castillo? No, he answered a question

the commentator asked about Floyd and Hatton barely said anything other than the comment about more action in 4 rounds. Didnt mock Floyd, didnt say he wanted the fight and said little and that he would leave it at that.

You show me where he was mocking Floyd .

Watch from 3:27 for your further selfpwnage

[URL]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=VYd8lhxMWP8&feature=relmfu[/URL]

What the hell are you talking about?

"I think you've seen more action and value for money, in those four rounds, than what you've seen in Floyd's whole career!"

Ha! The crowd went mad when he said it! He knew exactly what he was saying!

Why are you trying to argue against me?

Floyd was outraged! He phoned up Leonard Ellerbe and went mad!

Stop being an idiot!

This is you speculating again Loudon. Where is the link and proof of that?

This is common knowledge. I've read it many times, and it was in Boxing Monthly just prior to their fight. How many fights did Ricky have at 147? People were asking the question afterwards, would the outcome have been different at 140? He knew Floyd wouldn't fight at 140. He made the sacrifice to make the fight. When you want a shot at the best fighter in the world, you have to give in to certain demands. It was fight Floyd at 147, or not at all. He took the risk for his dream fight! Floyd had recently fought Oscar at 154, so there was no way he was going down to 140 for Ricky.

Explain Loudon for the 100th time

In 1999, Joe wasn't interested.

In 2000, Frank says, Joe should now be looking to fight Roy.

In 2001, he hoped to go on and fight Roy.

We all know what he did after McIntyre. NOTHING!

Why would he drop a world title for a fight that may not happen? If the fight was agreed fine. But Jones changed his mind. Why lose money for a whim?

I've explained this a million times!

If he gave up his belt, etc, etc, he MAY have had an opportunity to fight Roy for good money.

WITHOUT DROPPING HIS BELT, HE HAD NO REALISTIC CHANCE OF FIGHTING ROY FOR GOOD MONEY!!

By 05 I doubt Calzaghe was worried about Hopkins or Jones as much as he had Lacy and Kessler around making noise

At the end of 05, Roy was considered done. He'd gone 0-3 and was approaching 36.

Depends who you ask.

Ask whoever you want. I've asked Mind Reader for his opinion.

Calzaghe fighting in front of American television cameras once again, certainly impressed more than he had last time he was stretched to points, in a stinker against David Starie in January 2000.

He also had a stinker against Rick Thornberry before this fight.

So he'd given two bad performances, and then he beat Will McIntyre.

You best show this major mockery. I have put up the link and the time for you

I've shown it you fool! You're trying to argue, when Floyd took the bait, and told Leonard Ellerbe to make the fight. Ha! How can you argue against a FACT!?

What the fight where he held all night against 18 fight Urango or where many felt he lost to Collazo.

The U.S. fans warmed to his brawling style, and he came across well in interviews. He also brought a big army of fans with him, and people were interested in seeing him fight.

Dont know. I would say because of the crowd he had, he could get the fights, because he had a following, where ever the fights would have been.

It took him 44 fights to get Mayweather and Calzaghe 45 to get Hopkins

Took Hatton 47 fights to get Pac and Calzaghe 46 to get Jones, so cant see much difference in that

There's a huge difference!

Hatton fought peak versions of Floyd and Manny.

Hop was 43, and Roy was almost 40, and had been dismissed as a threat, on three seperate occasions by Joe.

Also, Ricky was 29 and 30, and Joe was 36.


Massive difference!

Calzaghe didnt want that one. That was for you boys. To lure Hopkins and it must have worked, beating the Ring #10 SMW before beating the Ring #1

No Joe didn't want it, but Frank made him! Manfredo was known from The Contender, and Frank did it to gain more U.S. exposure. If he'd have gone to the States earlier, he wouldn't have needed to have fought a meaningless fight like that at 35!

then you also know Calzaghe was a big draw. How many went to see him fight Manfredo? More than Jones and Hopkins pulled in any of their big fights put together

Yes he was a draw at HOME!

So what? Joe was very popular at home, especially after Lacy.

Joe fought in bigger venues for his big fights, but Roy fought to a bigger audience globally.

Roy had his big fights in Vegas, in front of around 17,000 fans.

Joe fought at the Millenium stadium in front of 50,000.

The size of the venue is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

In the same year that Joe fought Kessler in front of 50,000, Oscar fought Floyd in front of around 16-17,000.

That was the biggest grossing fight of all time.

Joe's fight with Kessler, wouldn't have been a huge event outside of Europe.

Now Loudon lets work on facts we know

Ha! Nobody ignores more facts than you!

Calzaghe agreed to go to America if the fights with Hopkins or Jones could be made, so why deny this?

Joe didn't want anything to do with Roy, when Roy was peak. But when Roy was 40 and washed up, he was happy to get on that plane, and take the fight.

What a guy!


Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by general zod

If you lose Joe, it's all your fault

What can anybody say about this?

There is literally no argument than can be made, against what you've posted.

Joe trying to backtrack on what he'd originally said about Roy, was cringeworthy.

"He's back! He's had three great wins!" I don't know how he said it with a straight face.

Embarrassing!

Regards, Loudon.

[Joe.Boxer]

Originally Posted by Slothrop

Joe Calzaghe is a fag.

So why did your mother give him a blow job?

[knockout artist]

Zod, you're boring!

From the disingenuous and tedious nature of your posts, you're obviously not interested in any sort of objective discussion. You clearly have an agenda against Calzaghe, and no-one or nothing can convince you otherwise. It's sad that you're willing to invest so much of your own personal time trying to discredit someone you've never met to anonymous people over the internet , but it's your time not mine


Hence, I'm not going to waste any more time with you, we'll agree to disagree

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Ha! I'm always on her i phone when we're out. It drives her mad!

I took her to Statford upon Avon in the summer, and we were sat at the side of the river in the sun, and I asked her for the phone, and she wasn't happy! Ha!

Sorry for the late reply mate, it's been a busy week to say the least!

I got an iphone myself a couple of months ago, and now any bus or train journey, I end up on this site! If I'm at the pub and I'm bored I find myself flicking onto ESB!

You're right, it is all hypothetical. But Joe also annoyed Glen by pulling out with a bad back. When Frank tried to get the fight back on track, Glen demanded money up front I believe.

Yeah I agree, Joe was injury prone and I fully understand Glen's frustration. I think Frank paid Glen £100'000 for a fight that never even happened!

Over the years I've read a few articles, that stated he had to come down from 14 stone, and it got harder and harder. In 2001, he was looking to move up but didn't. In 2004, Barry McGuigan stated that in his opinion, he had to move up, and Joe said the same thing himself, the same year.

True, but he was still strong at SMW until 2008. Though I would have liked to see him fight Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver in 2004

I've just read recently, that Joe in 2004, was upset that Tarver and Johnson knocked Roy out. He was frustrated that he hadn't got the the opportunity to beat him, but then admits, that both of them wouldn't have beaten Roy, when he was at his best.

He's probably right. Roy was still a top fighter between 2003-2004, but not as dynamic as he once was

You may be right, but I'm certain I heard him say it on a radio interview, but I can't find anything. I think later on, when they had their war of words in 2006, and in 2008, Joe said he'd done nothing apart from a shot version of Roy.

I think the quote you have in mind is from 2006. When Tarver mentioned fighting Joe in 2004, Joe was respectful of Tarver's abilities and seemed to welcome the possibility of facing him

Calzaghe has targeted a move to the higher division in 2004 and a 'superfight' with Tarver.

"Calzaghe's promoter called and I would be happy to take that fight if Calzaghe is ready to make his debut in America," Tarver told the Boxing Talk website.

"Soon you may be seeing Tarver against Calzaghe - it's Showtime baby!"

To which Joe responded with

"After that I want to fight Antonio Tarver, who gave Roy Jones Jr such a hard time.

"He's rated the No 1 light-heavy in the US, and I'm willing to go to his own backyard to beat the guy.

"If I do that, hopefully I'll get my recognition across the Atlantic."

Then Roy agreed to rematch Tarver instead, and the rest is history

You might be right, but I just wish that Joe had've been in the divison then, and everyone had have known how good he was. Then there would have been a big call for the fight.

I think Joe was scheduled to fight Gonzalez for his WBO LHW title, and then that fell through when Gonzalez lost to Erdei

I didn't know that Joe was looking to fight Glen, before he beat Roy?

It was in one of bailey's links

BBC Tuesday, 8 June, 2004

But Johnson is adamant Calzaghe has lost his chance, saying: "The fight is off. I'm not interested in fighting Joe Calzaghe any more.Johnson refused to wait for the fight to be rescheduled on 04.

We've been through this a lot, but in my opinion, it became impossible for Roy to unify at 168, so he moved to 175.

The men who mattered at 175, were the other belt holders, after he'd beaten Mike McCallum. He beat both of them, but couldn't get the DM fight. He then fought Harding, Gonzalez, Woods and Tarver. So apart from beating DM, he fought everyone who was relevant.

I see where you're coming from, I've criticised Jones' LHW reign in the past, but he recorded good wins in the division. Was never truly beaten during his peak

I can agree with that. But at the same time, because he couldn't get those fights that you've mentioned, I think he should have moved upto 175. Hopkins was a 160 fighter. There was no point in him staying at 168 when he couldn't fight Ottke.

Why should he have moved up to 175? That meant giving up his SMW world title, in pursuit of fights that were at best distinct possibilities.

The problem is, if Joe moved up, then we'd be having this same discussion, and people would be saying Joe ran away from SMW to avoid Jeff Lacy who was knocking everyone out. It's lose lose either way really

Zod provides great links, and forms his own opinion based on factual information. Skittlez is a hater!

zod's a joker! The guy has literally wasted hours and hours of his life on google reading and writing about Calzaghe, a fighter he isn't a fan of tragic!

No. There's always circumstances involved. But again, Joe could have done so much more with his career. So could Roy, but Joe was too good to stay at 168 til 2008.

Fair point

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by Loudon

As mentioned, I can remember hearing it, and thinking, that doesn't make sense. But I can't find it online. It was definitely before 2006 though. In theory he could have fought Tarver, if he'd have beaten Hopkins, but we don't know that. When Roy had lost 3 in a row, he said he'd rather fight him, than Johnson and Tarver, which didn't make a lot of sense. It's all ifs and buts. I just wish he'd have fought Glen Johnson. Maybe if he'd have beaten Glen, putting in a good performance, a fight against Tarver and an earlier fight with Hopkins may have happened?

It did make sense, fighting Jones earned Joe $10m. I'm not sure how much he would have gotten to fight Tarver or Johnson, but we can agree it would have been substantially less!

I can appreciate all of the above, but I didn't like Joe's comment when he said, there was absolutely nothing left to achieve. I suppose you can't blame him for cashing in against Roy, but Dawson would have been a much more competitve fight, that I'm sure fans would rather have seen. But like you say, boxing is a business. He said Pavlik had done nothing to warrant a fight. (he hadn't at 16 But fans would have loved that fight at the time. He also said Dawson had done nothing to warrant a fight. Now if you agree, then that's fair enough. But the thing is, he dismissed them, but chose to fight Roy, who he'd been dismissing from 2004.

I think he embarrassed himself a little, when he pretended that he thought Roy was back to his best etc. A little honesty would have been a lot better. Roy chased him in 2008. He could have said, Roy wants the fight, and the opportunity is too good to turn down etc. That would have been fair enough. But early in 2008, he said he'd be disappointed if Roy was his last fight, and he wasn't a great fighter anymore. Then 6 months later, it's Roy's back! He's had three great wins etc! There was no need for it.

I don't think he embarrassed himself, he was selling a fight. Roy and his camp were saying Roy was sharp again and fighting well. Roy was still a good fighter in 2008, a long way off his best, but still a good fighter

That's fair enough, but again, a little honesty wouldn't have gone amiss.
You would have thought with Joe's style, that he'd have relished a fight against a guy like Kelly Pavlik. I know he was free from Frank when he signed to fight Roy, and they both said that the negotiations were easy to make, because neither fighter was tied in to anyone. But the fight didn't do great PPV. I would assume, that he probably would have got more money against Pavlik, because that fight would have excited everyone, and a lot more people would have been interested in it. I think the PPV figures would have been much higher. Even if he'd have still been with Frank, and he'd have taken a cut, I still think he'd have earnt more in the end. He also would have gained a lot more respect.

I think Joe relished the payday he got from Jones. Pavlik doesn't have a fanbase to compare to Roy's. He would not have gotten $10m to fight Kelly Pavlik, nobody ever has or will. Look at the interest Calzaghe-Jones generated, compared to Hopkins-Pavlik. Hopkins was far more known in the US than Calzaghe, yet people talked about Jones-Calzaghe.

As I've mentioned, I could envisage both guys beating each other.

I don't know about being scared, but again, would he have been up for the fight? He did fight Lacy and Kessler, but would they have posed the same threat?

We can't just automatically assume, that he'd have stepped in with Ward. He could have dismissed him like he did Pavlik.

ok mate we'll agree to disagree here

Despite him destroying Lacy, you can't just ignore the fact that he tried to pull out, till Frank intervened. I think Joe would definitely have seen Andre as the bigger threat, if he'd have been around at the time, and Joe had've seen him fight a few times.

why would Ward be seen as the bigger threat? He's a solid, awkward fighter who works his way inside, and tries to maul opponents on the inside, but at the same time he's feather fisted.

Lacy was a KO artist, who was tearing through the division. Here's a guy who could put your lights out with one shot, being built up as the SMW Tyson

I think a Calzaghe would have figured Ward out and once he settles into the fight, and took him apart in a good fight. The Hopkins that Joe beat was better than Ward. If you look at Ward's best wins - Kessler and Froch, two guys who are flat footed and lack the athletic ability and ring IQ of a Calzaghe.

As said, we'll have to agree to disagree

That's fair enough, I heard that, but again, he also stated that he'd nothing left to achieve. In another interview I heard, he said Dawson was a good fighter, but he'd done nothing. Which again is fair enough, but he'd done a lot more than Roy. Everyone knew Roy's career had ended 4 years earlier.

I see, but in one thread I remember you stating that despite Joe being a great fighter, Jones would have never fought him in 2002 because he had no fanbase to speak of.

Dawson is good, but has no fanbase to speak of.

Yet you state Joe should have fought him. That seems unfair in the context

True, but I don't know the circumstances involved. You'll have to educate me on this. Did he clearly duck him?

Bute called Ward out, and said he was willing to travel to Oakland for the fight.

After Ward beat Froch, Bute was mooted and he said Bute hasn't proved himself

Article Link - [url]***********.***********.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=47744#ixzz2B57tQIZZ[/url]
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to ***********.com or provide a link to the original article.

The president of Sportscene and InterBox, Jean Bédard, made it very clear - IBF super middleweight champion Lucian Bute will not chase after, or wait around, for a unification with Super Six tournament winner Andre Ward. After Ward recently decisioned Carl Froch to unify the WBA/WBC titles, he was challenged by Bute. Bedard was advised by Ward's promoter, Dan Goossen, of their intentions to pursue other opportunities.

"Ward and his promoter were clear, he is looking for a an easier fight and he is not ready for Lucian. We are certainly not going to run after him all year. We have other options," Bedard said.

Funnily enough, after Bute-Froch was signed, sealed and delivered, Ward comes out and says that's a shame because he wanted to fight Bute himself. Which simply wasn't true.

[url]***********.badlefthook.com/2012/4/12/2943180/andre-ward-says-he-wanted-to-fight-lucian-bute-butes-team-disagrees[/url]

Instead Ward went on to fight a drained Dawson who posed next to no threat

Whilst Bute took the risk of defending his title in his opponents back yard against Froch, a bigger risk than Ward has ever taken

Same to you.



True.


Great debating with you mate!


Regards, Loudon.

Thanks mate, get back to me whenever you can

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

Zod, you're boring!

From the disingenuous and tedious nature of your posts, you're obviously not interested in any sort of objective discussion. You clearly have an agenda against Calzaghe, and no-one or nothing can convince you otherwise. It's sad that you're willing to invest so much of your own personal time trying to discredit someone you've never met to anonymous people over the internet , but it's your time not mine


Hence, I'm not going to waste any more time with you, we'll agree to disagree

Thats your response? Sad. You type more words into this fourm than he does and you confronted him with aruements. Prove anything he posted was a lie? Most of his posts are just links with a little comment to make it easier for you to comprehend. You obviously have no more avenues to continue debating so with so you bottle out with that? Do yourself a favour and climb out from beneath the bottom of the barrel some day.

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Thats your response? Sad. You type more words into this fourm than he does and you confronted him with aruements. Prove anything he posted was a lie? Most of his posts are just links with a little comment to make it easier for you to comprehend. You obviously have no more avenues to continue debating so with so you bottle out with that? Do yourself a favour and climb out from beneath the bottom of the barrel some day.

Aww looks like I touched a nerve with you the other day.

If I told Zod that night follows day, he'd look for a way to argue with me. It's a waste of time, I've posted up links previously that anyone can read. He's done the same, fair play and that's that

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Have you read Zod's links?

Frank W said "And what Joe fails to mention, is I stuck by him for years when TV companies wanted to dump him - and some did"

He also said "back then the only way I could get him on air was to piggy-back deals made for Ricky Hatton and Amir Khan."

Like I mentioned in my last post, when you're fighting Manfredo at 35, to gain U.S. exposure, you know you've made some terrible choices in your career!

You might as well end the thread now.

And you say Roy didn't want to know?

Nobody was bothered about Joe.

He only has himself to blame. The opportunities were there, but he was too reluctant to take them.


Regards, Loudon.

[bailey]

[quote]

Originally Posted by general zod

Hopkins pulled out because of the terms of the offer not because he was avoiding Calzaghe

Wrong. Hopkins got the terms he wanted.
He wanted the fight in America, he was given that.
He wanted to be able to win a SMW title, he was given that.
He agreed to 3mil for the fight and was given that.
Then the next day decided he wanted 6mil (the crown jewels I would say) or no fight. Double the amount.
Hopkins then fought his next defence for less than 1.5 mil, less than half of what he was originally offered to face Calzaghe.

If that had of been Calzaghe, you would have called that a duck. Just tell me you wouldnt

No
HBO wanted that fight

Interesting you say that, as Loudon cannot grasp that HBO wanted Hatton/Mayweather rather than Hatton chasing it.
Jones offered Hopkins the fight at a 60/40 split and Hopkins wanted 50/50 even though he wasnt the attraction and had lost to Jones

1: Bradley was always planning to move up which is why he fought Abregu at ww

A while back as a one off and was back at LWW, he wasnt campaigning at WW, so lets not try and rewrite the truth again Zod

2: Pacquiao fights in America

I know he does most of the time, but Bradley wasnt calling him out

Calzaghe was basically unknown in America until he fought Lacy back in 06
It should be pointed out that even then American fans never warmed to him

How would you know from Leeds ? I cant wait for this answer
Calzaghe was known in America and had been on TV over there.
I recall how after beating Brewer, the Ring mag said about how they had taken to him after an exciting fight where he toughed it out.
He may not have been warmed to, but he was known as a champ and a good fighter.
Remember Lacy viewed him as a massive test

****** never made one offer to Jones.

You even made a thread where he did

In order for him to do that he would of needed the green light from HBO. Show me one article where a member of HBo says that talks are in place or any offers have been made

Calzaghe was with Showtime. why would I have HBO details? Frank spoke to Jones people as documented and shown in the links.
Read it for yourself
[URL="***********.thefreelibrary.com/BOXING%3A+CALZAGHE+CHASING+JONES+CLASH.-a091559984"]***********.thefreelibrary.com/BOXING...SH.-a091559984[/URL]

[bailey]

Originally Posted by general zod

Andre Ward

Based on what?
Beating a rusty, unwell double vision suffering fighter that Calzaghe took the 0 of?
Seems your bias agenda has made you come out with more ridiculous things, though im sure you will do one of your tiered rating systems for us to have a giggle over

[Hatesrats]

He'll no... WAIT how much money are we talking here???

[Loudon]

Knockout,

Sorry for the late reply mate, it's been a busy week to say the least!

Don't ever worry about that mate. You can reply 2 or 3 weeks later if need be.

I got an iphone myself a couple of months ago, and now any bus or train journey, I end up on this site! If I'm at the pub and I'm bored I find myself flicking onto ESB!

Haha! I'm the same, but I haven't got an iphone, so I'm always pinching my girlfriends, and her ipad too. Sometimes I come straight in the house, and just pick either one of them up straight away ha! I love this forum. Bailey's been working me hard this week though. I think I deserve to get paid for debating with him.

Yeah I agree, Joe was injury prone and I fully understand Glen's frustration. I think Frank paid Glen £100'000 for a fight that never even happened!

Yes it's a real shame that fight didn't come off. That would have been a great fight.

True, but he was still strong at SMW until 2008. Though I would have liked to see him fight Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver in 2004

Again, both of those fights would have been great!

He's probably right. Roy was still a top fighter between 2003-2004, but not as dynamic as he once was

Yes, you would have to assume that Joe would have beaten the versions of Roy that they beat.

I think the quote you have in mind is from 2006. When Tarver mentioned fighting Joe in 2004, Joe was respectful of Tarver's abilities and seemed to welcome the possibility of facing him

Possibly, but I definitely remember hearing it, rather than reading it. But it was a while ago.

To which Joe responded with

Then Roy agreed to rematch Tarver instead, and the rest is history

Yes, fair enough.

I think Joe was scheduled to fight Gonzalez for his WBO LHW title, and then that fell through when Gonzalez lost to Erdei

I'm not sure about that. I've read Zod's links earlier, and apparently he could have been mandatory to Gonzalez, had he moved up. Did Joe contemplate doing so, while Gonzalez was preparing for Erdei? Or was he not at all interested?

Why should he have moved up to 175? That meant giving up his SMW world title, in pursuit of fights that were at best distinct possibilities.

That's a fair point, and we've discussed it before. But the difference is,

If he'd have moved up, as you say, it was only a possibility.

But if he didn't, he literally had no chance of getting the fight.

So he was in a dilemma, and I respect that, but just how bad did he want Roy?

I honestly believe, that had he gone up when he had the opportunity in 1999, and put in Lacy type performances, they may have been a big demand for a fight between him and Roy.

At the end of the day, a possibility is better than nothing at all. Yes he could have moved up, and impressed, and at the end, he still may not have gotten the fight. I can appreciate that.

But he killed the chance altogether by remaining at 168.

If you want something bad enough, you have to take risks.

I can understand that Joe wanted to eventually unify at 168.

But he needed to make a choice.

Go all out for Roy, or forget about him and move on. He couldn't do both.

Roy was the unified 175 champ, and he had to give up his titles to move up for Ruiz, and to try and get Mike in the ring.

After Ruiz, he had to fight an extremely motivated Tarver, to try and win them back.

But again, I respect the tough position that Joe found himself in. But I think he should have gambled. In my honest opinion, he'd have won the 175 belt at some point down the line, before he retired. I honestly think that Joe moving up and winning a 175 title, would have been a bigger achievement than unifying against Kessler.

The problem is, if Joe moved up, then we'd be having this same discussion, and people would be saying Joe ran away from SMW to avoid Jeff Lacy who was knocking everyone out. It's lose lose either way really

I respect that, but as mentioned above, I'm talking about him moving up 99/2000 when he was about 28.

zod's a joker! The guy has literally wasted hours and hours of his life on google reading and writing about Calzaghe, a fighter he isn't a fan of tragic!

I love reading the debates between you two. Your relationship with him, is like mine with Bailey.

I've never met anyone more argumentative ha!

It's all good fun though!