Holman Williams vs Luis Manuel Rodriguez: Greater Fighter

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by the cobra

7 votes. Like, 3 posts comprised of actual, thread-specific information. Strange, rural child holding stranger dogchicken picture. Forever lost joke referencing cock knowledge. I'm called a good man. LittleRed waiting in a car.


That makes it official: I great everybody.

Matt McGrain lowered the tone.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by the cobra

7 votes. Like, 3 posts comprised of actual, thread-specific information. Strange, rural child holding stranger dogchicken picture. Forever lost joke referencing cock knowledge. I'm called a good man. LittleRed waiting in a car.


That makes it official: I great everybody.

[the cobra]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Matt McGrain lowered the tone.

Like he always does.

As if it would just kill McGrain to actually take things seriously and offer up some in-depth, well-written, deeply informative posts every once in a while. You know? Like, actually contribute to the forum? Yeah, you know.

He just has to spend his time making cock references and creeping people out anywhere he goes.

Irish bastard. (ha!)

Originally posted by Hands of Iron

That guy knows what he's talking about.

He's a pretty good fighter, too. You know who'd beat him though? Yeah, you know.



HOLMAN WILLIAMS AND LUIS MANUEL RODRIGUEZ! BAM! Back in business, baby!

[turbotime]

Both are very deep as far as good to great WINS go. Depends on what you like really. IMO Holman just beat the better guys as deep as both their records are.

[sweet_scientist]

Got to give Holman an edge in resume, and Rodriguez an edge as far as dominance goes.

Depends what you like really. I don't really feel justified in making a call without seeing more of Holman and his opponents though.

For what it's worth I thought Rodriguez clearly won Griffith fights 2,3 and 4. I had him winning the first one too, but that one could have admittedly gone the other way. Rodriguez simply outworked him for mine, and landed the cleaner shots along the way.

Griffith is a great all rounder, but I don't really rank his talent that highly. He was a great stayer and durable as all fuck, but I think quite a few of the better welterweights would beat him through their greater skill.

Most of the decent sized welterweights should bear up to his physicality and beat him, and at best he'd probably exploit the punier types like Ross and Whitaker and perhaps Armstrong. Though I'd still favour Hank to gut that out after seeing how close Jose Stable got to beating him.

[dpw417]

I have to echo much of what Sweet Scientist said in regards to Williams having an edge in in resume, and the lack of film clouding any judgement call. Have to disagree re Emile Griffith, whom I rate very highly in a H2H capacity at welter. LMR had one hell of a resume as well, fighting so many middleweights...LMR was a true iron man, and IMO Griffith was too for that matter.
Stylistically, and this is a real stretch (even more than usual, due to lack of film) LMR just may have the speed, defensive ability, and pace to really trouble Williams...simply because I think LMR gives those troubles to anyone in history at 147. What may shift this to LMR's favor, is Williams' lack of fight changing power. Personally I think LMR was one of the quickest welterweights...faster than Burley, and maybe Gavilan...(but Gavilan is more explosive because he committed to exchanges more.) With that said, another attribute LMR had was excellent defense...with this in mind, LMR could have possibly beaten the great boxer, Holman Williams.

Side note: One fight I've recently thought about is Burley and LMR...(apologies to The Cobra, don't mean to highjack his thought provoking thread)...Two scenarios (naturally) Would LMR's speed and ability to get inside and back out play havoc with Burley's tactics of singular power shots? Again LMR's overall pace, combinations and ability to get out of danger would have definitely given Burley trouble stylewise.

Something to maybe consider in favor of Burley though is the power he carried...In the film against Smith, it is clear Burley has the respect of the larger man, with his punching power. In LMR's fight with Jesse Smith I believe, LMR chose to box more off the backfoot, chosing not to get close to Smith due to the threat of Smith's right hand. LMR demonstrated his class and versatility in doing what he needed to do...no shame there at all...But if he were presented with another powerful puncher who was versatile himself...It would get interesting.There is only one film of Burley...But in that one film, he does everything from fighting off the backfoot, to taking the fight directly to a much larger, power punching light heavyweight...keeping him guessing, and in check for all ten rounds. So even just off just that one fight, Burley demonstrates how great he was...The guess here is Burley would win against LMR...But I think if LMR had fought in Burley's era...he would have had his share of scalps.

[Flea Man]

The way Holman whacks in the wide right hand to the body around the guard is identical to how LMR deployed that same shot.

Rodriguez was brilliant at changing levels, using his brilliant body punching to create openings upstairs. He'd throw multiple body shots at average speed then punctuate the combination with a quick and lashing punch to the head.

[Unforgiven]

Holman Williams was greater, largely because he was from Detroit.

I find Rodriguez largely uninteresting to watch. I suspect Williams was a bit boring too.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Holman Williams was greater, largely because he was from Detroit.

I find Rodriguez largely uninteresting to watch. I suspect Williams was a bit boring too.

Really?

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Really?

not as boring as Emile Griffith.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

not as boring as Emile Griffith.

Of course, who is?

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Of course, who is?

Virgill Hill.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Virgill Hill.

I see your Virgil Hill and raise you Paul Pender.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I see your Virgil Hill and raise you Paul Pender.

Griffith, Pender and Hill .... Triple bill ... License to thrill !

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by the cobra

Rodriguez: 107-13 49 KO's -
Emile Griffith, Curtis Cokes, George Benton, Benny Paret 2x, Yama Bahama 2x, Chico Vejar, Rubin Carter 2x, Holly Mims, Joey Giambra, Isaac Logart, Virgil Akins 2x, Bennie Briscoe 2x, LC Morgan, Denny Moyer, Tony Mundine, etc.


Discuss and argue and berate.

(You can match them H2H too, if you want. Whatever)

Funnily enough I came across the following list when looking to see what footage of Gomeo Brennan was about to add to what I have.

Notable wins:
Emile Griffith (arguably a few times)
Curtis Cokes (1-2)
Rubin Carter x2
Bennie Briscoe x2
Benny Paret x2
Virgil Akins x2
Joe Miceli
George Benton (first man to stop him, on cuts)
Tony Mundine
Isaac Logart
Joey Giambra
Holly Mims (took the fight on a little over a weeks notice)
LC Morgan
Vicente Rondon (1-1)
Denny Moyer
Wilbert McClure x2
Yama Bahama x2
Luis Federico Thompson
Kid Fichique
Chico Vejar
Gomeo Brennan
Johnny Gonsalves
Jose Monon Gonzalez x2
Juan Carlos Rivero

I've added a few and made some amendments. Will McGrain do an in-depth version for Williams?

EDIT: What does anybody know about Dave Hilton, the dad of the notorious Hilton brothers? Any good as a fighter in his own right?