If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[pngo]

No, he would get KTFO.

[Loudon]

[quote]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

Thanks, sorry if this post is terrible, I'm currently nursing a terrible hangover Got in at 5am this morning, and can't get back to sleep!

5am? Bloody hell! Ha!

iphones are quality, especially compared to the old nokia I had before it! This forum can be hilarious, I wonder where MetalMandible went, he was a great poster, his threads were hilarious.

I was wondering the same thing myself, only last week. Ha! What a joker. I'd love to know what's happened to him. I hope he comes back!

ha! I enjoy reading your debates, you two are like Morales-Barrera!

He's relentless. He's like the Terminator!

Yeah I think Joe would beat any version of Jones post Ruiz. I think if they fought between 2001-2003, whilst Roy was still elite, he wasn't quite as dynamic as he once was, that would have been a close fight. But a 1994 Roy Jones is simply too sharp, and too good for any SMW.

Yes definitely. Roy at 25/26 would have had far too much for him in my opinion. I'm 100% certain it would have been a TKO, just based on styles.

Yeah that's true, Joe was promised a fight with Gonzalez on the basis that he beat Mkertchyan, and it was scheduled in Cardiff and everything, then Gonzalez lost to Erdei and that ruined everything.

Was Erdei ever a possibility for Joe?

I agree, by staying at SMW he didn't put himself in the mix and can only have himself to blame.

That's right. He wasn't prepared to take any risks. It's ok saying "If Roy had have come a long for good money, he'd have taken it etc" The fact is, while ever he was fighting at 168, the opportunity to fight Roy for good money was never going to present itself. Joe was never an attractive proposition to Roy while Roy was on top.

Yeah I can agree with that. Joe was an elite fighter, and I think he would have been a hit in the States if he went over earlier. I think if Joe was going to fight Roy, he would have wanted it on his terms, and when Roy was the biggest draw in the sport, the fight was always going to be on Roy's terms. Hence like you say, if Joe wasn't willing to make those concessions, he can't have wanted it that bad.

Exactly!

Yeah it's a laugh I'm going to go back on my word and reply to his posts in a bit to keep the fun going

Yeah keep up the debate, I love reading both of your posts.

[dinovelvet]

This says it all by somebody who was around Calazghe all his life. Doing what Joe wouldn't.
[ame="***********.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ez9jTyr5Y&feature=plcp"]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ez9jTyr5Y&feature=plcp[/ame]

[Loudon]

Knockout,

Part 2.

I didn't realise Roy had trouble getting motivated for the Calzaghe fight.

Roy was very motivated for the fight with Joe. But Alton Merkerson at every opportunity, was telling people that Roy looked amazing, and he was doing things in the gym better than what he'd done 10 years ago etc. There's no way Merk really believed that, he was just giving Roy a confidence boost in front of the media.

I appreciate that Joe hugely contradicted himself trying to make out that Roy was a threat by that stage. I don't think he really believed any of it. I bet Joe could hardly believe his luck, he got paid $10m to fight a Roy Jones who posed little threat. I didn't bother to stay up and watch that fight, I just caught the replay on Setanta in the morning. It was actually a great display by Joe, I think he would have beaten any LHW in the world at that time on that particular night.

I can't agree that it was a great display, because like you say, he knew Roy was no longer a serious threat.

Steve Bunce just tows the line I'm sure in a few years time he'll be telling us about how George Groves is the best SMW ever, would have beaten Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe etc.

Ha! Like I said, he was only doing his job. But I was just sat there shaking my head, when he was hyping the Trinidad win, just 8 months after he'd dismissed it.

Yeah Pavlik would have been a much better fight

But I don't think it would have drawn in similar PPV numbers. I don't think Joe would have gotten the same money. I remember them saying the PPV numbers weren't great because of the economic climate back at that time, it was bang in the middle of the recession.

I think Hopkins-Pavlik did even worse, and Bernard had a bigger US fanbase than Joe.

Fair enough.

Sorry if I wasn't clear mate, Andre Ward is easily better than Lacy no doubt

My point was about perceived threats, and Lacy was perceived as a huge threat. He was bombing guys out. One thing I hate in boxing is the revisionism, people say the Lacy win wasn't much because of what he did after, but you have to look at where the fighters were going into the fight, and Lacy was the next big thing.

Ward though is the much better boxer, but lacks the punch. I don't think he has the same fear factor Lacy had. It's all hypothetical, but Joe had dealt with spoilers before, and he fought the ultimate spoiler in Hopkins and won.

I respect your opinion though

Fair point, and obviously we don't how Joe would see things. I understand where you're coming from, when you say Lacy had the most fear factor. He was more dangerous. But again, Andre is the better fighter, and would have been a bigger threat to Joe.

- Joe Calzaghe from the Jeff Lacy fight v Andre Ward from the Chad Dawson fight

If you had to, who would you put your money on?

I'll go with Calzaghe in a 116-112, or 115-113 type decision.

Honestly? I don't know. I could see them both winning a decision.

I know you don't agree, but like I said previously, would Joe be fired up and wanting to fight Andre? If he was active today? I don't know!

I think it would be a very very close fight, and as I say, I can't really give an answer. I can envisage Joe outworking him, but I could see Andre frustrating Joe, and just edging it.

I agree that Dawson would have been the better, more interesting fight. But I disagree when you say in 2002 nobody wanted Jones-Calzaghe, there was demand and even Roy spoke about it after the Clinton Woods fight. I understand the reasoning that Joe didn't bring enough to the table, and it's similar with Dawson. He's the legit LHW champ, yet for his biggest fight he had to come all the way down to SMW, and travel into his opponents backyard. Dawson is a good fighter, but what did he bring to the table?

There wasn't a global demand for a fight with Roy in 2002. In Britain they would have been, but HBO weren't really interested, and again the American PPV fans, had hardly seen Joe, and when they had, he hadn't impressed.

When Roy spoke of it after Woods, it was just an option til Murad came back with an answer on Ruiz. Even if Ruiz hadn't have gone through, he wouldn't have fought Joe anyway. He'd have fought Tarver.

You're right about Dawson, and he cashed out against Roy, and we probably would have done the same, if we'd have been in his position. But again, a little honesty wouldn't have gone amiss.

No worries, after Ward won the Super 6, the fight everyone wanted was against Bute.

Ward quickly dismissed Bute and said he has nothing to prove, and that he was taking a long lay off. Basically he didn't want to fight Bute. Which is fair enough, Ward has been on a tough run.

Then, bizarrely after Bute-Froch is signed and announced, Ward comes out and says oh that's a shame, I wanted to fight Bute.

That was a complete lie, he had his chance, Bute said he'd fight him in NYC, Vegas or Oakland and Ward ignored it, then made that comment months later.

I'm surprised at that.

What do you think will happen in the Froch vs Bute rematch? Did you say you went to the 1st fight?

I think a rematch with Froch is high risk, low reward. I think Carl gave him a tough fight first time around, but Ward has nothing to prove by beating him again.

I agree. I don't think he'll want to unify the division, because he's already beaten Carl pretty easily.

I read that Magee-Kessler is a box off to become Ward's mandatory, but surely no-one wants to see Ward-Kessler 2? I think Ward should stay busy and active, not fighting once a year like he's Floyd Mayweather, staying active is how you build a fanbase. Then the big fights will come up. I'd still like to see Ward-Bute, I know Froch thrashed Bute and Ward beat Froch, but styles make fights.

I don't think we'll see a Kessler rematch.

I'd like to see the Bute fight, and of course you're right, styles make fights. But I think if Carl knocks Bute out again, (which I think he will, because I think Bute will be psychologically damaged from the first fight, and Carl will just jump straight on him) I don't think anyone will be that bothered about a Bute vs Ward match.

So I think he'll definitely be at 175 within the next 12 months.


Just reply back whenever mate, hope you've had a good weekend.


Regards, Loudon.

[knockout artist]

[quote=Loudon;14135110]

5am? Bloody hell! Ha!

It's what friday nights are about

I was wondering the same thing myself, only last week. Ha! What a joker. I'd love to know what's happened to him. I hope he comes back!

He was a laugh, shame he's not on here. You and him had some great arguments!

He's relentless. He's like the Terminator!

I give you credit for taking him on! Not many have to nerve to take bailey on!

Yes definitely. Roy at 25/26 would have had far too much for him in my opinion. I'm 100% certain it would have been a TKO, just based on styles.

Fair enough, I don't see Joe getting stopped but it's hypothetical

Was Erdei ever a possibility for Joe?

I'm not sure, but I know the Gonzalez fight was all ready to go

That's right. He wasn't prepared to take any risks. It's ok saying "If Roy had have come a long for good money, he'd have taken it etc" The fact is, while ever he was fighting at 168, the opportunity to fight Roy for good money was never going to present itself. Joe was never an attractive proposition to Roy while Roy was on top.


Exactly!

I can't argue with any of that

Yeah keep up the debate, I love reading both of your posts.

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Knockout,

Part 2.



Roy was very motivated for the fight with Joe. But Alton Merkerson at every opportunity, was telling people that Roy looked amazing, and he was doing things in the gym better than what he'd done 10 years ago etc. There's no way Merk really believed that, he was just giving Roy a confidence boost in front of the media.

Oh right, I remember the 24/7 series building Roy up as though he was still great, showing clips of him from 10 years ago but nothing from any of his recent fights except a few moments against Trinidad. Must have been hard to watch Roy, knowing how great he once was. I saw a recent quote from Roy's current trainer saying he still has so much left, and I was thinking that's not healthy! If I was working with Roy, I'd be blunt and tell him to retire! There's nothing wrong with a 43 year old man fighting, Hopkins and Foreman were still world class at that age. But Roy's finished, he has nothing left to give the sport as a fighter.

I can't agree that it was a great display, because like you say, he knew Roy was no longer a serious threat.

fair enough

Ha! Like I said, he was only doing his job. But I was just sat there shaking my head, when he was hyping the Trinidad win, just 8 months after he'd dismissed it.

Bunce can do my head in when he's clearly being disingenuous!

Fair enough.




Fair point, and obviously we don't how Joe would see things. I understand where you're coming from, when you say Lacy had the most fear factor. He was more dangerous. But again, Andre is the better fighter, and would have been a bigger threat to Joe.

Agreed, I think Lacy had the fear factor of the sheer brutality of his punching power. Hence he was seen as a huge threat. Ward is of course the bigger threat as he's better

Honestly? I don't know. I could see them both winning a decision.

I know you don't agree, but like I said previously, would Joe be fired up and wanting to fight Andre? If he was active today? I don't know!

I think it would be a very very close fight, and as I say, I can't really give an answer. I can envisage Joe outworking him, but I could see Andre frustrating Joe, and just edging it.

Fair enough, but Joe took on Kessler when he was the strong, undefeated unified champ. I don't think he'd have feared Ward

There wasn't a global demand for a fight with Roy in 2002. In Britain they would have been, but HBO weren't really interested, and again the American PPV fans, had hardly seen Joe, and when they had, he hadn't impressed.

When Roy spoke of it after Woods, it was just an option til Murad came back with an answer on Ruiz. Even if Ruiz hadn't have gone through, he wouldn't have fought Joe anyway. He'd have fought Tarver.

Agreed, I don't see when the fight was viable when both were prime. The fight with Tarver was always going to happen, and Roy always had his eye on the Heavyweights. Fighting Ruiz was the perfect opportunity to make history

You're right about Dawson, and he cashed out against Roy, and we probably would have done the same, if we'd have been in his position. But again, a little honesty wouldn't have gone amiss.

True

I'm surprised at that.

What do you think will happen in the Froch vs Bute rematch? Did you say you went to the 1st fight?

I haven't seen it, but I heard that Bute looked terrible last night. I heard he was getting caught against the ropes, and taking a lot of punches against a guy I've never even heard of

I suspect Bute's handlers will cash him out in a Froch rematch, where Bute will get brutally knocked out again. He has no chance against Froch whatsoever.

I'm still devastated I missed the fight fight! Unfortunately I had work commitments.

Last fight I went to was Haye-Chisora, that was a really good evening. Have you been to any fights recently?

I agree. I don't think he'll want to unify the division, because he's already beaten Carl pretty easily.

There's no merit to rematching Froch, he beat him comprehensively first time round. I know Carl likes to say it was closer, and point out that two scorecards were 115-113, but even he can't believe that. I had Ward winning 117-111

I don't think we'll see a Kessler rematch.

I hope not, I like Kessler, but he has very little chance at beating Ward

I'd like to see the Bute fight, and of course you're right, styles make fights. But I think if Carl knocks Bute out again, (which I think he will, because I think Bute will be psychologically damaged from the first fight, and Carl will just jump straight on him) I don't think anyone will be that bothered about a Bute vs Ward match.

After hearing Bute was terrible last night, I think Froch took it all out of him. I don't think Bute has much left to offer Andre Ward at this point. I was hoping Bute would recover well, but I guess not. The worst fight for him now is a Carl Froch rematch, which he's bound to by a clause!

As said, I don't think Bute is worth fighting now for Ward. I hope Andre Dirrell can make a comeback, I always felt Dirrell had the style and speed to trouble Ward. Actually, I'd just like to Ward fight someone that moves well, he hasn't yet.

So I think he'll definitely be at 175 within the next 12 months.

True, I hope he stays active, I enjoy watching him fight

Just reply back whenever mate, hope you've had a good weekend.


Regards, Loudon.

I have mate thanks, you too

[Loudon]

[quote=knockout artist;14136564][quote=Loudon;14135110]

It's what friday nights are about

He was a laugh, shame he's not on here. You and him had some great arguments!

Yeah I miss him on here. I used have great debates with Headbanger too.

I give you credit for taking him on! Not many have to nerve to take bailey on!

Ha! As daft as he is, he knows a hell of a lot about boxing.

Fair enough, I don't see Joe getting stopped but it's hypothetical

I think in 2002, it would have been close, but Roy would have taken it on points. But the Toney/Paz version of Roy definitely stops him. I'm certain of it. I respect your opinion though.

I'm not sure, but I know the Gonzalez fight was all ready to go

I'll look into it.


Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Part 2.

Oh right, I remember the 24/7 series building Roy up as though he was still great, showing clips of him from 10 years ago but nothing from any of his recent fights except a few moments against Trinidad. Must have been hard to watch Roy, knowing how great he once was. I saw a recent quote from Roy's current trainer saying he still has so much left, and I was thinking that's not healthy! If I was working with Roy, I'd be blunt and tell him to retire! There's nothing wrong with a 43 year old man fighting, Hopkins and Foreman were still world class at that age. But Roy's finished, he has nothing left to give the sport as a fighter.

Yeah it must have been hard for Coach Merk to watch Roy decline like that. It's only in the last 2 years that Roy has been honest with himself. Even after Green knocked him out, he was making excuses. It was only after the Lebedev fight that he finally said "I'm getting caught with shots that I never would have done in my prime, my reflexes have slowed considerably, and I need a new approach." That's why he's got Tom Yankello now on board. Tom seems a nice guy and a good trainer, but he knows Roy is just about done. You coud tell that he thought Roy had lost his last fight. In between the rounds he was telling Roy to get some life in his legs.

If he's going to insist on carrying on, he needs to fight low key opposition in Pensacola. I don't want him to fight Wlodarczyk or Kayode. I think even Kimbo would be too much for him at this stage. I think Kimbo would catch him and knock him cold. Because he hasn't even got good balance or the footwork to stay out of trouble.

Bunce can do my head in when he's clearly being disingenuous!

I don't really dislike Bunce, and he knows a lot about the game, but he gets on my nerves at times.

Agreed, I think Lacy had the fear factor of the sheer brutality of his punching power. Hence he was seen as a huge threat. Ward is of course the bigger threat as he's better

That's right, and I agree with your original point. Lacy brought more fear factor, and he had the ability to really hurt Joe. But Andre would definitely have been the bigger threat to take his zero.

Fair enough, but Joe took on Kessler when he was the strong, undefeated unified champ. I don't think he'd have feared Ward.

Fair enough.

Agreed, I don't see when the fight was viable when both were prime. The fight with Tarver was always going to happen, and Roy always had his eye on the Heavyweights. Fighting Ruiz was the perfect opportunity to make history

The fight was never viable at all. The only way the fight would have been viable is if Joe had've gone to the States earlier, or if he'd have had DM's 175 belt.

I haven't seen it, but I heard that Bute looked terrible last night. I heard he was getting caught against the ropes, and taking a lot of punches against a guy I've never even heard of

Yeah I've been hearing the same things.

I suspect Bute's handlers will cash him out in a Froch rematch, where Bute will get brutally knocked out again. He has no chance against Froch whatsoever.

Will the home crown give Bute a lift? I'm sure that Carl will go straight through him again.

I'm still devastated I missed the fight fight! Unfortunately I had work commitments.

Last fight I went to was Haye-Chisora, that was a really good evening. Have you been to any fights recently?

I remember you saying that you were going to Haye-Chisora.

I've never been to any fights mate. Not one. I've just always watched them on tv. If Roy had've come over years ago, I'd have definitely have gone to watch him. I grew up watching Naz, Ryan Rhodes and Joe, and just watched them on tv. I remember the full monthy bill in sheffield in 1997. That was amazing. I always used to buy the PPV's.

I know a boxer from Sheffield called John Fewkes. He's a friend of the family, and he's a really nice kid, and a good boxer. He lost to Martin Gethin a few years ago, because he had loads of weight problems. He retired really early because it became a nightmare to make weight, but he's coming back on Dec the 8th. He's only about 26/27. About 4 years ago, after he'd won young fighter of the year, he was scheduled to fight John Murray live on ITV, on a Carl Froch undercard from Nottingham. I was going to go, but he had to pull out at the last minute through injury.

Also, I had the chance to go and see Kell Brook a few weeks ago, but it was too short notice, and I was out for a family birthday. A good friend of mine works for Matchroom promotions, and he takes care of all of Eddie Hearns fighters, and their opponents. He drives them round. He picks them up from the airports etc, and takes them to the weigh ins. When Lucian Bute came over, he took him to all the press conferences, and Bute gave him one of his Hooded training tops, that said IBF world champion on it.

The best job he's had, was taking care of Carson Jones, and his manager Abel Sanchez. They even had lunch together. He said Carson was an absolute gentleman, and so Was Abel He spent a lot of time with the pair of them. Just before the weigh in, he told Carson Jones to shout out "We're all Blades aren't we?" when he stepped on the scales, and he did Ha! He's a massive Sheffield United fan! After he'd taken them back to the airport to go back home, he called in to our house, and asked who Golovkin was, because Abel had been going crazy about him.

For the last two or three fights at the Sheffield Arena, he's had free ringside tickets. So he phoned me with a free ticket for the Saldiva fight. But like I say, it was a bit short notice. Hopefully I might get an opportunity in the future. He'll be picking Yusaf Mack up soon, for the Froch fight.

There's no merit to rematching Froch, he beat him comprehensively first time round. I know Carl likes to say it was closer, and point out that two scorecards were 115-113, but even he can't believe that. I had Ward winning 117-111

Carl's got a lot of pride, but I don't think he'd be able to beat Andre.

I hope not, I like Kessler, but he has very little chance at beating Ward

I agree.

As said, I don't think Bute is worth fighting now for Ward. I hope Andre Dirrell can make a comeback, I always felt Dirrell had the style and speed to trouble Ward. Actually, I'd just like to Ward fight someone that moves well, he hasn't yet.

Lets see what Mayweather Snr can do with Dirrell.

He was my pick to win the Super Six.


Great debate mate, it's a pleasure debating with you.

Just reply back whenever.


Regards, Loudon.

[general zod]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

Zod, you're boring!

From the disingenuous and tedious nature of your posts, you're obviously not interested in any sort of objective discussion. You clearly have an agenda against Calzaghe, and no-one or nothing can convince you otherwise. It's sad that you're willing to invest so much of your own personal time trying to discredit someone you've never met to anonymous people over the internet , but it's your time not mine


Hence, I'm not going to waste any more time with you, we'll agree to disagree

[IMG]***********.optionotter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/throw-in-the-towel.jpg[/IMG]

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by general zod

[IMG]***********.optionotter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/throw-in-the-towel.jpg[/IMG]

I went back on my word and responded to your posts. If you want to ignore those posts then fine, we'll leave it at this


[IMG]********img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00380/Calzaghe_v_Jeff_Lac_380744a.jpg[/IMG]