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Old 10-31-2012, 05:35 PM   #16
johnmaff36
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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Originally Posted by BlackBrenny View Post
except he didn't, it was all a load of bollocks, and I hate the constant implication that the troubles were about religion, they weren't, Barry may have been catholic, but he's as unionist as Ian Paisley. Boxing was NEVER sectarian here.

Barry was a good fighter who got into the hall of fame based on the lie that he "united" the people of Ulster, thats sad, and it downplays what the troubles were really about.

Let's use Frampton as an example, if Frampton was around in the 70s, he would have gotten just as much support from both sides as he does today, even without the Danny Boy bollocks and wearing doves and carrying peace flags to the ring, such a load of shit.
There is more than a kernel of truth to this. The people who went to the fights were BOXING FANS, non of that hands across the divide bollocks that McGuigan churns out. I watched his documentary on ITV4 last week and the fibs that were told were laughable to anyone with a passing knowledge of irish boxing. I mean, some were so blatant he must have known himself he was kidding people on

McGuigan knows the media game inside out, but that shouldnt detract from the fact that he was a helluva good fighter at that time
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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your username is quite apt. McGuigan won an eliminater for the commonwealth title, Nelson was champ, Nelson relinquished. Doesnt sound like he was kept away from him to me.
Which fight was the eliminator? The only eliminator I can find for Barry was for the BBC feather title, not the Commonwealth title. And that was in November 1982, which by this point Nelson had already fought Sanchez and had moved on from Commonwealth fights and fighters
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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Which fight was the eliminator? The only eliminator I can find for Barry was for the BBC feather title, not the Commonwealth title. And that was in November 1982, which by this point Nelson had already fought Sanchez and had moved on from Commonwealth fights and fighters
Really? Nelson had moved on? Nelson won the commonwealth title in November '83 nearly a year and a half AFTER the Sanchez fight. McGuigans eliminator against Chitule was 2 months later. I dont know where you checked but if its boxrec, well thats notorious for missing the odd piece of info. Trust me, it was an eliminator. I think i have the programme somewhere in the loft where it states this. If i dig it out i'll get someone to put it up for me as im a dick when it comes to uploading stuff
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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It was the Danilo Cabrera fight that probably first had many thinking Nelson would have defeated Barry.

McGuigan made hard work of the fight and took a lot of shots.Nelson looked much stronger and toyed with him.

It's also a bit harsh to say Nelson had done nothing to show he would be a great fighter.He got great plaudits for the Sanchez fight(maybe a bit more than he deserved as there were loads who didn't want to acknowledge Sanchez had weaknesses) and had looked great against Mitchell, Gomez etc He was soundly established and well on his way to being nicely overhyped by the American boxing press due to the Sanchez\Gomez connection.america had a hard on for McGuigan as well though.
funny enough, it was right after the Cabrera fight that night that my old man (who had watched the fight ringside and was a big mcguigan fan) said to me that McGuigan had 2/3 fights left in him, max. It would have been hard for him to say that but he never let his heart rule his head and is probably the best judge of a boxer ive ever come across.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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Really? Nelson had moved on? Nelson won the commonwealth title in November '83 nearly a year and a half AFTER the Sanchez fight. McGuigans eliminator against Chitule was 2 months later. I dont know where you checked but if its boxrec, well thats notorious for missing the odd piece of info. Trust me, it was an eliminator. I think i have the programme somewhere in the loft where it states this. If i dig it out i'll get someone to put it up for me as im a dick when it comes to uploading stuff
Nelson beat one of our guys Brian Roberts in 1981 for the commonwealth title the first time round. He re-won it in 1983, then won the world title in 1984. I don't think any of this info is wrong

After losing to Cruz there was still a good chance of McGuigan fighting Nelson if he wanted to, such was his pulling power in the US. Instead he retired for a couple of years
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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Nelson beat one of our guys Brian Roberts in 1981 for the commonwealth title the first time round. He re-won it in 1983, then won the world title in 1984. I don't think any of this info is wrong

After losing to Cruz there was still a good chance of McGuigan fighting Nelson if he wanted to, such was his pulling power in the US. Instead he retired for a couple of years

Im not suggesting it is wrong apart from Nelson having bigger fish to fry after Sanchez cos he still fought for the commonwealth after that fight.

yeah he was pretty much finished after Cruz. Plus he had the court case against Eastwood which ate up time and money (the first case, the contractual one).I suppose he coulda fought Nelson after that, in theory, but there was no clamour for it from either side. Nelson wanted a big payday, which he not doubt woulda got against Barry in 85/86 and who could blame him, it was the biggest purse out there for them both, but after Cruz it pretty much burnt itself out.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:54 AM   #22
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

Also I don't know whether sitting ringside when Nelson bombed out Pat Cowdell inside a round may have influenced Barry!
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

I tend to think his career was a huge huge anticlimax. similar to ayala jnr.
I also think esparragoza, nelson, and fenech would have beaten him but a lot of my thinking is clouded by the cruz debacle and than how poor he looked against Mcdonnell when he did come back.

But its easy to forget the tremendous level of foe he did beat in that title run. Laporte in the elimanator, pedroza, bernard taylor who would surely have been olympic champ 1980, and an underrated cabrera.

Undoubtedly the heat and his managerial incompetence cost him his title and a fortune in America. It was his wise ass manager who was arguing with him b4 hand , who decided the whiter than snow ulsterman should fight in the mid day vegas heat with a latino native. It was the wise ass manager who didnt have ice in the corner and not enough water. Easy for people to forget Mcguigan would have retained his title if he hadnt been floored twice in the fifteenth despite the fact that he had been shutting out cruz up to the 8th
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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Originally Posted by Jamal Perkins View Post
I tend to think his career was a huge huge anticlimax. similar to ayala jnr.
I also think esparragoza, nelson, and fenech would have beaten him but a lot of my thinking is clouded by the cruz debacle and than how poor he looked against Mcdonnell when he did come back.

But its easy to forget the tremendous level of foe he did beat in that title run. Laporte in the elimanator, pedroza, bernard taylor who would surely have been olympic champ 1980, and an underrated cabrera.

Undoubtedly the heat and his managerial incompetence cost him his title and a fortune in America. It was his wise ass manager who was arguing with him b4 hand , who decided the whiter than snow ulsterman should fight in the mid day vegas heat with a latino native. It was the wise ass manager who didnt have ice in the corner and not enough water. Easy for people to forget Mcguigan would have retained his title if he hadnt been floored twice in the fifteenth despite the fact that he had been shutting out cruz up to the 8th
Yep, plus it was Rings F.O.T.Y.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

Heat was not the only factor that contributed to McGuigan's loss that day. He had sprained his ankle badly in the weeks prior to the fight, and had also perforated his eardrum in sparring.
He was to originally fight a squat come forward fighter called fernando sosa, who had pulled out through injury a couple of weeks before their fight, and was suddenly in against a neat quick handed counter puncher, who was already in training for a fighter of a similar style to Barry's.
There is also the the fact that the relationship with his manager and inexperienced trainer was at an all time low, and to top it all off, he was having problems making the weight.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: Barry Mcguigan

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except he didn't, it was all a load of bollocks, and I hate the constant implication that the troubles were about religion, they weren't, Barry may have been catholic, but he's as unionist as Ian Paisley. Boxing was NEVER sectarian here.
That's unlikely.
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