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Old 11-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #16
Waynegrade
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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Tommy always had a chance to beat Marvin. He would always be able to hit him clean, and had the fight been slower pace he would have . There is no doubt. The question is would Marvin take it and not get cut up and come back and stop Hearns. But he beat Tommy fair and square the first fight. I would have liked to see if Marvin could fight that style again in the rematch. I think it would have been slower pace.

By the way Marvin's cut was caused by Hearns mouthpiece at 1:20 left in round one. Marvin was throwing a right and he moved his head into Hearns mouthpiece as Hearns was throwing a right to Hearns body.
I actually didn`t see that when it happened. It makes sense though because of the nature and location of the cut. And I`ll give you this, I think the way Hagler fought Hearns was the only way for him to win. If he gave Hearns distance and let Tommy start getting off his telephone jab, thats a problem. I don`t see Tommy stopping Hagler though because of the granite chin Hagler possesed. No matter what, that was one amazing fight !
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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I actually didn`t see that when it happened. It makes sense though because of the nature and location of the cut. And I`ll give you this, I think the way Hagler fought Hearns was the only way for him to win. If he gave Hearns distance and let Tommy start getting off his telephone jab, thats a problem. I don`t see Tommy stopping Hagler though because of the granite chin Hagler possesed. No matter what, that was one amazing fight !
It was not a usual cut. It was mid forehead level and it was not straight but a little angled, and a you could see even in the first exchange with Hearns on the ropes, one camera angle Hagler's forehead hits Hearns mouth area at the same location, but Hearns was not tired so he was not breathing out of his mouth yet. It was 1:20 left in round one. The cut was right where Hearns mouth would line up Hagler's head. It was totally inadvertant and the wild nature of the fight led to it. Neither guy really would be able to know when this happened since it wassuch a fast paced fight.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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It was not a usual cut. It was mid forehead level and it was not straight but a little angled, and a you could see even in the first exchange with Hearns on the ropes, one camera angle Hagler's forehead hits Hearns mouth area at the same location, but Hearns was not tired so he was not breathing out of his mouth yet. It was 1:20 left in round one. The cut was right where Hearns mouth would line up Hagler's head. It was totally inadvertant and the wild nature of the fight led to it. Neither guy really would be able to know when this happened since it wassuch a fast paced fight.
A big jagged cut square on the forehead is just not something a punch causes, 99 out of 100 times. I've never bought that was a cut caused by Hearns' legal offense.

Fighters win with broken hands all the time. I've won with two. It's not some cover all excuse, imo. Injuries happened in fights. God knows what Hagler was suffering in there, you know? One guy walked away, one guy didn't. We hear about what ails the loser all the time, for very definite reasons.

It had something to do with the outcome, but far less than Marvin Hagler coming in like a freight train and kicking ass.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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A big jagged cut square on the forehead is just not something a punch causes, 99 out of 100 times. I've never bought that was a cut caused by Hearns' legal offense.

Fighters win with broken hands all the time. I've won with two. It's not some cover all excuse, imo. Injuries happened in fights. God knows what Hagler was suffering in there, you know? One guy walked away, one guy didn't. We hear about what ails the loser all the time, for very definite reasons.

It had something to do with the outcome, but far less than Marvin Hagler coming in like a freight train and kicking ass.
he had a good style to beat Hearns and he knew he had to fight that way and not give Hearns room to land his big right, but that wild style is what caused the cut.
It as 1:20 left in the round as can be seen on the tape of the fight on youtube or any videos we have -Top Rank's clock was shown on the bottom right,and Hagler and Hearns are both throwing a right to the body and so they step in and Hearns mouth hits Marvin's forehead and they punch as the they collide, so each guys is moving into his punch to the body and that causes the cut as Hearns mouthpiece slides over Hagler forehead and slices it.

Hearns was tired and breathing out of his mouth like he normally did at times. I am 100 percent sure it was at that point. I guess 27 years later it does not matter what caused the cut. Hard to believe it was 27 years ago. I like analyzing fights and where cuts came from. If you look at anything over and over you can figure it out, especially if it is on tape.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

Hagler put the definite stamp on the first fight, no there was no need for a second fight.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

One name. Bob Arum. Interviewed via telephone the morning after Hagler-Duran, he said he'd be "honored" to rematch them after such a competitive showing by El Cholo, so right away, Roberto and his team knew that a return with Marv was in their laps, if he kept on winning. Instead, he partied his way into his showdown with Tommy, and paid for it.

The morning after Hagler-Hearns, Arum was again asked in a televised telephone interview about the feasibility of a return between Marv and Tommy, and this time he replied that he felt what happened the night before was too brief and conclusive to make a rematch commercially viable. Hagler had done to Hearns what Tommy did to Roberto. SRL thought he was actually going to retire after what happened. ["Hey. The man got BEAT!"]

Hagler and Hearns both returned to action almost a year later on the same card, where Marv had his war with Mugabe, while Tommy blew out Shuler. Hagler reaffirmed his stamina and punch resistance with "The Beast" [in probably John's greatest career performance], while Hearns proved little in catching Shuler cold after barely a minute of action. Tommy had no chance to re-legitimize himself as a rematch opponent for Marv before the far more lucrative Hagler-SRL was decided upon and arranged, and maybe never could have.

I actually think Duran-Hearns II in late 1989 would have been more commercially viable after Duran-Barkley than Hagler-Hearns II ever could have been. [In fact, I recall more interest among fans I knew in the idea of rematching Duran with Hearns than SRL-Duran III.]

After New Orleans, we knew SRL-Duran III was going to be anticlimactic rather than a war. Ray knew he couldn't hurt Roberto, but could still out-speed and outmaneuver his older, smaller and slower opponent. A boring lopsided decision for SRL is what everybody expected, and that's exactly what they got.

Meanwhile, El Cholo demonstrated a well conditioned punch resistance with Barkley which wasn't there for Hearns in '84. Tommy's stamina and punch resistance were still suspect, while Roberto remained an extremely effective body puncher who finished very strongly in perhaps The Blade's finest career performance. He stood up to shots from Iran that Hearns had just failed to, so many felt that Hearns-Duran II would have been a less predictable product.

Duran would have wanted to redeem himself for his humiliating blowout at Tommy's hands, while Hearns would have wanted to redeem himself also after Duran-Barkley, and almost certainly would have tried to bomb Roberto out again. However long Duran went at it again with Tommy, there was certain to be fireworks and excitement.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

As has been mentioned, the fight would have happened, but Ray Leonard came along saying he wanted to come back to fight Hagler.

And, yes, Hagler's first fight over Hearns was conclusive. Hagler kicked his ass badly, and the whole world knew it. Realistically, Hearns would have been a HUGE underdog, and few outside of his most fanatical supporters would have expected him to survive the fight without getting KO'd, nevermind actually win it .... but people would still pay plenty of money to see him try.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

Because the image of Hearn's being carried out like a child after only three rounds really left the demand kind of low ...
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

Hagler would have beaten him senseless again, he was to strong for TH, and Hearns didn't have the chin for Haglers punch, that's why Hagler choose Leonard more money and he wanted the challenge of fighting someone more durable.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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Because the image of Hearn's being carried out like a child after only three rounds really left the demand kind of low ...
Nah, it would have drawn a lot of viewers in spite of that.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: Why no Hagler Hearns 2 ?

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Because the image of Hearn's being carried out like a child after only three rounds really left the demand kind of low ...
Off-hand, I can't recall another such instance in a major bout. Duran's handlers did it right, after Tommy dropped a stiffened Roberto on his face, bringing him promptly back to his feet, albeit glassy eyed.

Cradling Hearns like a baby was poor judgement and lack of decorum, and I'm not sure Tommy's image ever recovered from that sight. Hearns wasn't carried out on his shield, but in a crib [through no fault of his own, but the world saw what it saw].
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