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Old 11-05-2012, 08:03 PM   #31
dempsey1234
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Thats right but thats the first thing they throw at you, their credentials, "I have a master's degree in S&C, from Sakkachips university, and have worked with all kinds of athletes, Hockey Players, football players, basketball, and baseball." Thats fine have you ever trained a boxer? "Er' no but his muscle fiber, twitch muscles, explosive power, blah, blah, blah". Actual conversation with an S&C coach.

My point is that S&C coaches, the one's I have run into, seem to have no background in boxing and claim to know all there is to know, if you don't agree then you're old school.
They tend to whip out their resume if you question them about anything they perceive as old school.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
why hasnt anyone mentioned that those ATG's
fought others just like them who
who also did not use S and C coaches


so that kills the whole point of your thread


and as far their coaches being these know it all around
trainers,
well these are the same coaches who though weight training
was evil
and sometimes had their fighters running outside wearing boots
Yep, these same guys trained guys to go hard for 15,20, 25 to 45 rds and they did alright, look at the long line of ATG and HOF'rs these oafs trained without the benefit of those wonderful S&C guys.
I hate to burst your bubble but here is a clue, old school guys didn't want musclebound bodybuilders, that was why they disliked weight training, they chopped wood, used pulley's, medicine balls. Another thing to consider these oafs knew that being musclebound was not a good thing, which even today they still believe. S&C guys always come up with that arguement, that old school guys "thought weight training was evil". They still do give these oafs some credit cos they do incorporate strength training in their training.

About wearing boots sorry again to burst that bubble, back in those days they didn't have fancy running shoes.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
In the old days, the trainer was also the strength and conditioning coach as well, which was good because everybody was on the same page. Today a fighter 'trains' 8 hours a day, which is too much, and only a part of that is spent with his boxing trainer. He spends time with a nutritionist, a cardio coach, a strength coach and so on. many of these guys don't know anything about boxing and don't understand a very simple truth: Just because you are in shape to run a marathon, or swim 2000 laps, or whatever, it doesn't mean you are in shape to fight 10 rounds.
So you get what I see every time I watch the fights...muscular guys that look like they should be able to fight, but who have very pedestrian skills, are boxing dummies, and, for all the people getting paid to get them in fighting shape, seem to get tired pretty quickly.
what the **** are you on about.

sport science has evolved since the days of duran, robinson etc.
Athletes are now fitter and stronger then they where back then.
strength and conditioning needs to be done but boxing skill is more essential.
for the guys at the top who have reached there peak in boxing skill, maybe a bit more strength or conditioning can take them to the next level.
For guys th guys still learning there craft, you need to spend more time learing boxing and less conditioning. You just need to know how much time to spend on each. Always come into the ring fit.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Yep, these same guys trained guys to go hard for 15,20, 25 to 45 rds and they did alright, look at the long line of ATG and HOF'rs these oafs trained without the benefit of those wonderful S&C guys.
I hate to burst your bubble but here is a clue, old school guys didn't want musclebound bodybuilders, that was why they disliked weight training, they chopped wood, used pulley's, medicine balls. Another thing to consider these oafs knew that being musclebound was not a good thing, which even today they still believe. S&C guys always come up with that arguement, that old school guys "thought weight training was evil". They still do give these oafs some credit cos they do incorporate strength training in their training.

About wearing boots sorry again to burst that bubble, back in those days they didn't have fancy running shoes.
Weight training doesn't equate to musclebound you ****ing tard. You think a guy who fought for 45 rounds fought with intensity?
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:34 AM   #35
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Thats right but thats the first thing they throw at you, their credentials, "I have a master's degree in S&C, from Sakkachips university, and have worked with all kinds of athletes, Hockey Players, football players, basketball, and baseball." Thats fine have you ever trained a boxer? "Er' no but his muscle fiber, twitch muscles, explosive power, blah, blah, blah". Actual conversation with an S&C coach.

My point is that S&C coaches, the one's I have run into, seem to have no background in boxing and claim to know all there is to know, if you don't agree then you're old school.
They tend to whip out their resume if you question them about anything they perceive as old school.
If a guy has a master's in S+C and has trained other athletes you know for damn sure he is going to be able to get a boxer into better boxing condition than a boxing coach can. To think otherwise is just ignorant.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Thats right but thats the first thing they throw at you, their credentials, "I have a master's degree in S&C, from Sakkachips university, and have worked with all kinds of athletes, Hockey Players, football players, basketball, and baseball." Thats fine have you ever trained a boxer? "Er' no but his muscle fiber, twitch muscles, explosive power, blah, blah, blah". Actual conversation with an S&C coach.

My point is that S&C coaches, the one's I have run into, seem to have no background in boxing and claim to know all there is to know, if you don't agree then you're old school.
They tend to whip out their resume if you question them about anything they perceive as old school.
1.He told you a good thing,what the hell is he supposed to say to you?
2.Background in boxing?LOL.
So let me guees if some S&C trainer wants to train a boxer he himself has to train boxing?Thats absurd.
So if i wanna go an be a s&c trainer of an astronaut i have to go to space it seems.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:52 AM   #37
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Weight training doesn't equate to musclebound you ****ing tard. You think a guy who fought for 45 rounds fought with intensity?
Jeez, now who is the "tard"? I am sure with your superior intellect you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say. Old timers as well as new school guys have to agree training with weights builds muscle, but if you do it correctly then it helps thats why its call strength training. Thats why I mentioned chopping wood, pulley's, medicine balls, they did their own version of strength training they didn't have these hi tech machines they have now and to tell you the truth not many gyms or guys can afford to join another gym, or may not even have access to a S&C coach where they live.
Weight training to me means training with weights, and training with weights can make you musclebound. A fighter should do some strength training, is something we can all agree on.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Weight training to me means training with weights, and training with weights can make you musclebound.
Running means running and running can make you look like a marathon runner.

See how this logic, well...falls apart?
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
If a guy has a master's in S+C and has trained other athletes you know for damn sure he is going to be able to get a boxer into better boxing condition than a boxing coach can. To think otherwise is just ignorant.

Any decent coach can get a guy in shape for a four or six rd fight.

Just cos there are new and improved ways to get a guy in condition doesn't mean that it is the only way to get a guy into condition. Maybe you come from a big city and can afford to have a S&C coach handy most rural areas fighters may not have access to them or the new hi tech machines.

it's a no-brainer a S&C coach can get a guy into shape cos he is primarily working on condition.

A boxing coach has to oversee what is being worked on and and how hard its being worked on.

The thing you may not understand is there are different levels of boxing. "for the guys at the top who have reached there peak in boxing skill, maybe a bit more strength or conditioning can take them to the next level."

"For guys that are still learning their craft, you need to spend more time learning boxing and less conditioning."
You just need to know how much time to spend on each. Always come into the ring fit." And thats where the boxing coach comes in.

The point of this tread is simple you dont need a S&C coach, believe it or not there are ways to get a guy ready for the hardest fights that dont involve S&C coaches.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:31 PM   #40
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

[quote=pecho26;14145966]


1.He told you a good thing,what the hell is he supposed to say to you? No mumbo jumbo stuff that only he can understand most coaches understand some but not all.
2.Background in boxing?LOL. Not have a background in boxing LOL
So let me guees if some S&C trainer wants to train a boxer he himself has to train boxing?Thats absurd.
Sorry but I may be different than you cos I want to know know what boxers they have worked with. An S&C coach should have a background in whatever they do, what fits from another athlete may not fit for boxing, and experimenting with a guys career is not good. Each sport has specific areas they need worked on. I didnt say they had to be boxing trainers.
So if i wanna go an be a s&c trainer of an astronaut i have to go to space it seems.
Thats silly but you should have a background on what is needed.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #41
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

[quote=dempsey1234;14147646]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pecho26 View Post


1.He told you a good thing,what the hell is he supposed to say to you? No mumbo jumbo stuff that only he can understand most coaches understand some but not all.
2.Background in boxing?LOL. Not have a background in boxing LOL
So let me guees if some S&C trainer wants to train a boxer he himself has to train boxing?Thats absurd.
Sorry but I may be different than you cos I want to know know what boxers they have worked with. An S&C coach should have a background in whatever they do, what fits from another athlete may not fit for boxing, and experimenting with a guys career is not good. Each sport has specific areas they need worked on. I didnt say they had to be boxing trainers.
So if i wanna go an be a s&c trainer of an astronaut i have to go to space it seems.
Thats silly but you should have a background on what is needed.
You're basically saying that if a S&C coach want's to train an athlete in their sport then the S&C coach must have experience of the sport? That's ridiculous.

Boxing puts an athlete's body under certain stresses, no different to other sports. An S&C coach understands these stresses and knows what is required to train the athlete to their full potential in their given sport. In no way does a S&C coach have to have any experience whatsoever in boxing to train a boxer for his strength and conditioning requirements. All he/she needs to know is the stresses created by the sport.

BTW, all top coaches experiment on their athletes with new training techniques, except for maybe boxing, hence the reason we have clueless people like yourself spouting crap.

Last edited by viru§™; 11-06-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #42
dempsey1234
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by Jdsm View Post
Running means running and running can make you look like a marathon runner.

See how this logic, well...falls apart?
Hmmm! It only falls apart when you make foolish comments, here is some more, night means night, and night means dark.
My point is simple guns dont kill people, people kill people, weights dont make people musclebound, people make people musclebound. This is silly.
Dont nitpick like an old lady.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Hmmm! It only falls apart when you make foolish comments, here is some more, night means night, and night means dark.
My point is simple guns dont kill people, people kill people, weights dont make people musclebound, people make people musclebound. This is silly.
Dont nitpick like an old lady.
The logic you used was ridiculous. "Using weights can make you muscle bound", well yes, but using weights doesn't mean you WILL be muscle bound.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #44
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Hmmm! It only falls apart when you make foolish comments, here is some more, night means night, and night means dark.
What he said followed your previous logic perfectly...

Quote:
My point is simple guns dont kill people, people kill people, weights dont make people musclebound, people make people musclebound. This is silly.
People make people musclebound? I agree, this is silly.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Any decent coach can get a guy in shape for a four or six rd fight.

Just cos there are new and improved ways to get a guy in condition doesn't mean that it is the only way to get a guy into condition. Maybe you come from a big city and can afford to have a S&C coach handy most rural areas fighters may not have access to them or the new hi tech machines.

it's a no-brainer a S&C coach can get a guy into shape cos he is primarily working on condition.

A boxing coach has to oversee what is being worked on and and how hard its being worked on.

The thing you may not understand is there are different levels of boxing. "for the guys at the top who have reached there peak in boxing skill, maybe a bit more strength or conditioning can take them to the next level."

"For guys that are still learning their craft, you need to spend more time learning boxing and less conditioning."
You just need to know how much time to spend on each. Always come into the ring fit." And thats where the boxing coach comes in.

The point of this tread is simple you dont need a S&C coach, believe it or not there are ways to get a guy ready for the hardest fights that dont involve S&C coaches.
1.How the hell is he gonna supervise something what he doesnt understand?!
2.Yes you need a S&C coach at profesional level.
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