how much of an influence was archie moore on cassius clay ?

[doug.ie]

archie trained clay for a while, and they fell out....but looking at some of archies fights he does have a style (and what a great style) that reminds me of some of clays / ali's style...

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=4ATaP2TyF9U[/ame]

[Stevie G]

The young Cassius learnt a variation of the 'Rope-A-Dope from the 'Old Professor' Archie called it the 'Tortoise Shell' I think. Also Moore's campaigning style when he went after a title shot with Rocky Marciano definitely influenced Muhammad.

[Stevie G]

Both Ali and Moore were very theatrical. Archie would quite often wear a Top hat and carry a cane,while Muhammad would drum up publicity wherever he went,in order to promote fights.

[Unforgiven]

There's no such thing as the "Rope A Dope" really.

Archie Moore actually could fight off the ropes and avoid getting hit, and counter. He had those sorts of skills. It was boxing off the ropes.

Ali's "Rope A Dope" was just covering up and getting pummelled and then coming back. It was impressive sometimes (notably v. Foreman), but was suicidal. It was ridiculous tough man stuff. It caused awful brain damage, imo.

[Bummy Davis]

Moore had tons of inside the ring savvy as well as being a very intelligent and articulate man. Style wise not much of an influence but Ali picked up some tricks and Moore had a strong mind and was a well armed & geared and knowledgeable warrior

[doug.ie]

well...i meant boxing style....a young(er)...young-ish ..moore...had a lovely sharp jab from the hip and shoulder roll and fluid head movement...ali had those kind of movements too i think

look at the first minute of that video above

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

There's no such thing as the "Rope A Dope" really.

Archie Moore actually could fight off the ropes and avoid getting hit, and counter. He had those sorts of skills. It was boxing off the ropes.

Ali's "Rope A Dope" was just covering up and getting pummelled and then coming back. It was impressive sometimes (notably v. Foreman), but was suicidal. It was ridiculous tough man stuff. It caused awful brain damage, imo.

Thing is,Ali actually avoided a lot of punches WHILE he was on the ropes. He was n't getting tagged half as often as sometimes appears.