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Old 11-08-2012, 03:07 AM   #31
mcvey
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Round 10,

Again, Muhammad Ali fought as a 'dirty man', with numerous fouling.

No less than '14-times' he cuffed Mr. Frazier behind the neck, and
pulled at him.

A total of 1:13 of the 3-minute Round, Mr. Ali fought very 'unclean'.

Not one warning by Tony Perez, and he only slapped at Mr. Ali once.

Clearly a round, in which Mr. Ali should have had at least '4' warnings, and
at a minimum a 2-Point deduction.

Joe Frazier won the round, and with proper penalties, it should have been
a 10-7 Round, but with New York Scoring, it could have been called for
Joe Frazier as a 3-point Round.

Do you get off on this?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:18 AM   #32
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Referee - Tony Perez,

January 28, 1974 (Madison Square Garden)

Joe Frazier vs. Muhmmad Ali II

'I consider it a bad performance by myself as a Referee. The holding, clinching
and dirty tactics used by Mr. Ali were obviously intentional fouls.
I wanted to use my authority as the 'Third Man in the Ring', but I was
under pressure from the higher ups to let it go.'

'I did discuss the fouling with the New York State Athletic Commission
Officials at Ringside several times, but they told me not to do anything
because Muhammad Ali would cry fouls of racism.'

'But it was getting ridiculous, and Muhammad was going overboard with
those very dirty holds behind Joe Frazier's neck. Joe looked at me at least
15-times, and said 'C'mon Tony do something.'
Preach it brother...a prophet is never accepted in his home town! The truth must come out! A lot of naysayers on here don't realize that the truth will set them free...and we don't mean Carl!
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Does anyone have the exact total of behind the neck 'cuffs' Mr. Ali used on
Mr. Frazier.
113 Times in 12 rounds. This according to Eddie Futch in 'CornerMen' Ronald Fried.

I believe that had Perez taken a point for Ali after a couple of warnings that would have been fair. Then the fight probably changes. Ali either keeps holding and loses another point or understands that he must use different tactics.

As far as the claim of racism ah...Joe Frazier was black too. That was a weak excuse by Perez. I do believe that the big $$ Ali brought in allowed him to get away with things like this and why he won so many close decisions.

thats just the way boxing goes at times.

Eddie Futch said that he and Joe never considered that fight a loss.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:21 AM   #34
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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113 Times in 12 rounds. This according to Eddie Futch in 'CornerMen' Ronald Fried.

I believe that had Perez taken a point for Ali after a couple of warnings that would have been fair. Then the fight probably changes. Ali either keeps holding and loses another point or understands that he must use different tactics.

As far as the claim of racism ah...Joe Frazier was black too. That was a weak excuse by Perez. I do believe that the big $$ Ali brought in allowed him to get away with things like this and why he won so many close decisions.

thats just the way boxing goes at times.

Eddie Futch said that he and Joe never considered that fight a loss.
Frazier was lucky Ali spent so much time holding, if he had hit him more Joe would have been blind after the halfway mark.
As it was Frazier looked like he had stuck his head in a bees nest .
Get real.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

A hold and a clinch is one thing.

And a boxer can usually get away with a couple of 'cuffs' behind his opponent's neck.

But what Muhammad Ai did was perform in an 'unclean way' with 'intentional fouls',
which deserves a penalty.

Round 10 is a perfect round to view and analyze. Mr. Ali was obviously tired, and
was attempting to ride out the round. His 'dirty tactics' were also 'flagrant stalls'.

After the 4th 'cuffing foul', which lasted 9-seconds, Referee Perez clearly should have
broken up the hold, and informed Mr. Ali that the 'foul' was way over the line, and
one more time he would be deducted a point.

Mr. Ali would go onto perform 10 more 'cuffing fouls' on Mr. Frazier.

A Referee with balls, would have DQ'd Muhammad Ali.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #36
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

Got away with it because of who he was...
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

If Muhammad Ali losses to Joe Frazier, by DQ or as a result of deducted points,
the Heavyweight Championship would have changed course.

Smokin Joe Frazier would have gotten the October 1974 bout with George Foreman.

Muhammad Ali would have been forced into a 3rd-Bout with Ken Norton, most
likely in late-1974 or early-1975.

George Foreman would have defeated Joe Frazier again (October 1974), and
stated that he would fight the winner of the Ken Norton vs. Muhammad Ali III bout.

Ken Norton and Muhammad Ali fight to a 12-Round Draw, and neither get a Title Shot.
in 1975.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:52 AM   #38
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by Derrick-Rose View Post
OMG who cares?
99% does care......perhaps you should leave this forum
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #39
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

Pepe had laid off Ali recently and moved onto Sugar Ray Leonard. Life must be boring in the care home.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:19 AM   #40
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Frazier was lucky Ali spent so much time holding, if he had hit him more Joe would have been blind after the halfway mark.
As it was Frazier looked like he had stuck his head in a bees nest .
Get real.

So true,McVey
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

Regardless of the source, Perez was having a bad night that night.

Ali's holding was excessive and illegal. He could have had signifcant points deducted because the holding was well past the point of issuing him a warning. It was deliberate and Ali continued doing it because he knew Perez didn't want to answer for it. Ali tried these tactics in the FOTC and Manilla. Both Mercante and Padilla warned him early in the fights for that.

Joe might have hit the canvas in the second round if Ali was able to follow up his combination after hurting Frazier. Perez really screwed up here. I don't believe or agree with the Ali fans who claim he would've stopped Joe. That's just nonsense. Ali doesn't have the Foremanesque power to repeat the knockdowns. I think Joe would have got up and rallied to continue in the fight. At worst, maybe Ali scores a couple of knockdowns having Joe in real trouble, that's all.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #43
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

Round 2,

Joe was stunned, but Muhammad Ali just didn't have that kind of finishing power.

Round 5,

Referee - Tony Perez was 'thinking' of warning Mr. Ali, but backed off.

Mr. Ali had '12' more cuff-clinches, and was well on his way to setting some kind of
World Record for 'cuffing', without getting a 'single-warning'.

Just don't count the 'unclean fouling', but the amount of time spent by Mr. Ali
using dirty and filthy tactics.

59-seconds of fouling in Round 5.

Tony Perez went over to ringside 'again' to discuss the fouling with the NYSAC Officials,
but Edwin Dooley said 'No, on any point deductions'.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:49 PM   #44
round15
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Frazier was lucky Ali spent so much time holding, if he had hit him more Joe would have been blind after the halfway mark.
As it was Frazier looked like he had stuck his head in a bees nest .
Get real.
Frazier lucky? C'mon McVey I'm surprised at you. Puhleeese!!! Unless Ali got hold of the stuff Liston used to blind him, Joe wasn't losing his sight. Manilla yes, but FOTC II no way.

According to Joe, Ali had no zip or sting on his punches. It was a shoeshine job and you don't have to post pictures of Joe's face after the fight to prove your point because it makes no sense.

Except for the right hand in the second round, Ali's punches were hardly dangerous. He was throwing shots for the judges scores, nothing more. Certainly he didn't have the conviction in his punches like he did against Frazier in the 14th round of Manilla or any other round in 1975. Very few punches that Ali threw in the FOTC II can compare with the murderess yet desperate intentions he had in Manilla.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:27 AM   #45
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Default Re: Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Tony Perez,

The 44 year-old Referee from New Jersey was regarded as one of the better
young ring general's - as he was quick, had strength and was always well positioned.

But, Tony had a stranglehold put on him by New York State Athletic Commissioner
Edwin B. Dooley, who told him after the 4th Round, 'If you penalize Ali a point, he
will never come back here to fight again. Just let it go Tony,'

But Tony complained to the commissioner, that it was getting out of hand, and Joe
Frazier was really getting pissed about Mr. Ali's constant 'dirty cuffing' behind the neck.

Edwin B. Dooley responded by telling Tony, 'You can warn him, but under no circumstances
are you allowed to penalize him a single-point, unless I say so.'

Referee - Tony Perez - 'My hands were tied. I was put in a stranglehold. I could have
penalized Muhammad Ali 5-points, or easily Disqualified him if he didn't obey my commands.'


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Ali had the boxing powers ( ref's and judges ) on his side. Ali should not have won the 3rd Norton fight, and could have drawn or lost to Shavers. But you're right. I think Futch said he counted something like 73 holds behind the neck in the 2nd Ali vs Frazier fight.
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