Stephan Bonnar

[Haggis McJackass]

Serious question for those who have such contempt for fighters roiding.

If the fight is not overseen by a sanctioning body, and the promotion has no rules against steroid use, is it OK?

Or does a fighter have a moral obligation to enter a fight clean, and perform as he is naturally rather than as a chemically-enhanced superior version of himself?

If everyone does it, does that make it OK and should your fighting legacy and standing/respect in the eyes of fans be unaffected by your drug use?

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Serious question for those who have such contempt for fighters roiding.

If the fight is not overseen by a sanctioning body, and the promotion has no rules against steroid use, is it OK?

Or does a fighter have a moral obligation to enter a fight clean, and perform as he is naturally rather than as a chemically-enhanced superior version of himself?

If everyone does it, does that make it OK and should your fighting legacy and standing/respect in the eyes of fans be unaffected by your drug use?

Are you being serious here? I'll assume you are.

It's never OK to cheat. Regardless of the level, and regardless of how many others are doing it.

Do you think if Lance Armstrong had played the 'but everybody else was taking drugs too' card the authorities would have let him keep his 7 tour de France victories?

Not in a million years

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by The Spider

Are you being serious here? I'll assume you are.

It's never OK to cheat. Regardless of the level, and regardless of how many others are doing it.

Do you think if Lance Armstrong had played the 'but everybody else was taking drugs too' card the authorities would have let him keep his 7 tour de France victories?

Not in a million years

Then by that rationale, every fighter who roided should be viewed with the same disdain as Bonnar is.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Then by that rationale, every fighter who roided should be viewed with the same disdain as Bonnar is.

Every case needs to be heard - innocent until proven guilty and all that - but I don't see 'everybody else is doing it' as any kind of legitimacy.

Image going to court charged with theft and saying in your defence that 'lots of other people are stealing property out there'. That would really help your cause wouldn't it

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Then by that rationale, every fighter who roided should be viewed with the same disdain as Bonnar is.

Maybe I'm missing your point but everyone in this thread is saying all fighters who get caught roiding should be banned for life or at least on the second occasion.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Matt Ldn

Maybe I'm missing your point but everyone in this thread is saying all fighters who get caught roiding should be banned for life or at least on the second occasion.

I can't understand how people can call Bonnar a disgrace for being caught roiding twice, and then turn around and say that Coleman (for example) should be in the HOF.

Surely it should be one or the other. A guy like Coleman was blatantly roided out of his skull, but it generally seems to be viewed as an amusing triviality. Seems to me that either roiding is OK, or it isn't.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

I can't understand how people can call Bonnar a disgrace for being caught roiding twice, and then turn around and say that Coleman (for example) should be in the HOF.

Surely it should be one or the other. A guy like Coleman was blatantly roided out of his skull, but it generally seems to be viewed as an amusing triviality. Seems to me that either roiding is OK, or it isn't.

It just isn't OK in my opinion

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by The Spider

It just isn't OK in my opinion

Not in yours, sure.

But in the eyes of many MMA "experts", it is a significant double standard.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Not in yours, sure.

But in the eyes of many MMA "experts", it is a significant double standard.

A double standard in a general sense? Or are you specifically referring to Coleman and the HOF?

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by The Spider

A double standard in a general sense? Or are you specifically referring to Coleman and the HOF?

In a general sense. Many legends of the sport were serious steroid abusers. But they fought in times and organizations where they weren't tested, so their careers and legacies weren't harmed by it. In fact, they were often helped, because win or lose they performed at a higher level than they would have otherwise been able to reach.

Seems two-faced to me to shit all over Bonnar for roiding, and then turn a blind eye to other guys who were doing exactly the same thing, oftentimes apparently to an even greater extent.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

In a general sense. Many legends of the sport were serious steroid abusers. But they fought in times and organizations where they weren't tested, so their careers and legacies weren't harmed by it. In fact, they were often helped, because win or lose they performed at a higher level than they would have otherwise been able to reach.

Seems two-faced to me to shit all over Bonnar for roiding, and then turn a blind eye to other guys who were doing exactly the same thing, oftentimes apparently to an even greater extent.

To me, a cheat is a cheat

[Stoo]

Im waiting for the 'P' word

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Im waiting for the 'P' word

No organization mandated steroid use. Some may be or may have been more relaxed about the issue than others, but the decision to roid or not is one that an individual fighter makes. Not an organization.

[Stoo]

Well the UFC had Captain America, but we are stuck with Captain Obvious

[Matt Ldn]

I agree with spidey a cheat is a cheat and should be frowned upon but for one we have the hindsight of those guys never killing someone or seriously injuring them in the cage/ring (that I know of I could be completely wrong there). Furthermore, in those orgs almost everyone was on something so it became less of an issue.

If a guy choses to have a shit diet and shit prep for a fight he might get hurt as a result. Thats a choice thats on him thats part of the sport. If a guy gets an advantage because he broke the rules and the other fighter didnt that is cheating.