boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2012, 02:00 AM   #616
sweet_scientist
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,870
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
Oh, it's up there already buddy. Split into several three-round clips, however. I had intended to watch the entire bout but got interrupted by I don't remember what the hell now as it escapes me. Definitely something I'll give a look this weekend.

And yeah, I'm one of those DeJesus III guys.
Happy viewings
sweet_scientist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-09-2012, 02:25 AM   #617
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,451
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

I'll chuck a load of Duran fights in single parts at the weekend lads. Got a fair bit waiting to be converted so I'll upload it when I get round to it
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 02:34 AM   #618
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I'll chuck a load of Duran fights in single parts at the weekend lads. Got a fair bit waiting to be converted so I'll upload it when I get round to it
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 02:37 AM   #619
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,451
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
I've slipped a little lately. Need to have a big weekend of mass uploads
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 03:49 AM   #620
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,451
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
I also rank michael spinks very highly, but the issue with him is only 32 fights, so hes tough for me to rank in a p4p sense. In terms of light heavyweight, I have him as the best light heavy in the past 50 years.
Beating the undefeated, lineal hevyweight champion says otherwise IMO.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:55 AM   #621
ushvinder
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 323
vCash: 500
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Beating the undefeated, lineal hevyweight champion says otherwise IMO.
Yeah thats a great accomplishment, but spinks is still a head scratcher when you compare him to fighters from lower weight classes. Hes difficult to rank. Another issue with him is he had 2 years of his career in 78 and 79 that went to waist, if he beat some of the top contenders in 79 and cleaned out, his ranking would have been higher.
ushvinder is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:11 AM   #622
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I've slipped a little lately. Need to have a big weekend of mass uploads
Carlos Eleta's management style irks me. Not because it was really much different from any other, but because Duran was so great. Of course, it could've been the gold ol' WBA mandatories, but Duran certainly could've made title defenses against some more worthy opponents during his LW reign even though he beat the guys who mattered most. The division sort of fizzled past the top 3 or 4 at any one point in the '70s, but still... I think he could've beaten Cervantes at 140 too. Eleta was turned off after a particular fight.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:29 AM   #623
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Are you 5'9?
5'7.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:08 AM   #624
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,451
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Yeah thats a great accomplishment, but spinks is still a head scratcher when you compare him to fighters from lower weight classes. Hes difficult to rank. Another issue with him is he had 2 years of his career in 78 and 79 that went to waist, if he beat some of the top contenders in 79 and cleaned out, his ranking would have been higher.
So who did he miss and how was it his fault considering he'd ha less than 10 pro' bouts?

He beat the man who beat the man (Qawi) so what's the issue? In '80 he beat Murray Sutherland, Yaqui Lopez and Marvin Johnson. The latter two were two of the best contenders of the era you mention. Would he really have benefitted from having the corpses of Conteh and Saad on his resume? Maybe, but not like you're making out IMO.

Spinks came a little too late for that great era but still beat the best of his. Okay, once he'd won the heavyweight title you can make criticisms of his level of oppo'. But not in the late 70s IMO, unless you've got unreasonable and unrealistic expectations.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:39 AM   #625
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
lololol ushfvinnder is biger dan u

hed beat u up
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 03:56 PM   #626
ushvinder
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 323
vCash: 500
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
So who did he miss and how was it his fault considering he'd ha less than 10 pro' bouts?

He beat the man who beat the man (Qawi) so what's the issue? In '80 he beat Murray Sutherland, Yaqui Lopez and Marvin Johnson. The latter two were two of the best contenders of the era you mention. Would he really have benefitted from having the corpses of Conteh and Saad on his resume? Maybe, but not like you're making out IMO.

Spinks came a little too late for that great era but still beat the best of his. Okay, once he'd won the heavyweight title you can make criticisms of his level of oppo'. But not in the late 70s IMO, unless you've got unreasonable and unrealistic expectations.
Okay I dont really like criticising Michael Spinks because hes one of my favourites, but he's easy to criticize. First of all, his ranking in all time lists fluctuate like crazy. I have seen lists that have him in the 40's, I have seen some all time lists where he's not even in the top 100. So don't try and act like ranking spinks outside the top 50 all time is some huge outlier, it's not.

With Spinks, the issue isnt whether he has good wins. He beat Larry Holmes, Qawi, Eddie Mustafa, Marvin and Old versions of yaqui/****ey. But after that his resume really lacks depth compared to other greats.

Why he chose to sit out in 1978 and 1979 is not my concern, but that doesn't help him. Listing that he only had 10 pro fights is irrelevant, he was a seasoned amatuer. Sure he could have had a few more tune up fights in 1978, but by 1979 he really could have fought the cream crop of the division. Guys like Mathew Saad, Richie Kates, Lottie Mwale, John Conteh, Roodi Koopmans, Mike Rossman, Jerry Martin, James Scott, were all available to fight. These guys arent exactly scrubs. Yes his resume would have deeply benefitted from having SOME of these guys on his resume.

Sugar Ray Leonard practically whiped out his division before he even faced wilfred benitez. If Leonard could fight all the guys he fought in 1978 and 1979, spinks could have too. As much as I dislike julio cesar chavez, he clearly has spinks beat in terms of depth, so does manny pacquiao.

Other fighters are criticised for beating guys well past thier primes, why arent you acknowleding it with Spinks. Sure Larry Holmes and Marvin Johnson still may have been good, but Yaqui Lopez and Gerry ****ey are simply good name wins, these two were old and shot.
ushvinder is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #627
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,894
vCash: 500
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Ya know... It's either an insult to Whitaker that this thread has even gone 46 pages.. when he's one of the most skillful boxers that has ever graced the real.. and certainly top 5 for me that we have video of.... OR it's a credit to Ush and his tireless and bias efforts that have kept it going when most wouldn't entertain it past 2 pages .
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:21 PM   #628
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Ushvinder has one hell of a chin.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #629
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,451
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Okay I dont really like criticising Michael Spinks because hes one of my favourites, but he's easy to criticize. First of all, his ranking in all time lists fluctuate like crazy. I have seen lists that have him in the 40's, I have seen some all time lists where he's not even in the top 100. So don't try and act like ranking spinks outside the top 50 all time is some huge outlier, it's not.

With Spinks, the issue isnt whether he has good wins. He beat Larry Holmes, Qawi, Eddie Mustafa, Marvin and Old versions of yaqui/****ey. But after that his resume really lacks depth compared to other greats.

Why he chose to sit out in 1978 and 1979 is not my concern, but that doesn't help him. Listing that he only had 10 pro fights is irrelevant, he was a seasoned amatuer. Sure he could have had a few more tune up fights in 1978, but by 1979 he really could have fought the cream crop of the division. Guys like Mathew Saad, Richie Kates, Lottie Mwale, John Conteh, Roodi Koopmans, Mike Rossman, Jerry Martin, James Scott, were all available to fight. These guys arent exactly scrubs. Yes his resume would have deeply benefitted from having SOME of these guys on his resume.

Sugar Ray Leonard practically whiped out his division before he even faced wilfred benitez. If Leonard could fight all the guys he fought in 1978 and 1979, spinks could have too. As much as I dislike julio cesar chavez, he clearly has spinks beat in terms of depth, so does manny pacquiao.

Other fighters are criticised for beating guys well past thier primes, why arent you acknowleding it with Spinks. Sure Larry Holmes and Marvin Johnson still may have been good, but Yaqui Lopez and Gerry ****ey are simply good name wins, these two were old and shot.
He had to sit out that year he had a knee injury.

I'm well aware Lopez was past his best. So were a lot of fighters that you're mentioning by the time '79 came around.

Wassaja was a quality amateur and decent pro'. Spinks beat Sutherland x2, Davis (close, not all that a scalp either way and Mike looked horrid) but it's his very solid achievement that sees him rank so high for me. Exactly why George Foreman ranks highly on my HW list, an incredible feat can elevate a fighter the same as a couple of decent wins would've.

Other than being in the same Olympic team there is no comparison to be made between Leonard & Spinks. That they had different career paths mean absolutely nothing to me.

Yes, I rate Ray a good 15-20 places above Mike Spinks.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #630
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Actually ive seen every one of whitakers relevant fights from 1989-1997, all of them, nice to see you get emotional about it, should i give you a tissue paper?

Once mayweather and pac retire, then they will be appreciated, when whitaker actually fought, people really didnt care about him.
Cool little feature from back in the day.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86t0tpUoCYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86t0tpUoCYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015