Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Tony Perez,

The 44 year-old Referee from New Jersey was regarded as one of the better
young ring general's - as he was quick, had strength and was always well positioned.

But, Tony had a stranglehold put on him by New York State Athletic Commissioner
Edwin B. Dooley, who told him after the 4th Round, 'If you penalize Ali a point, he
will never come back here to fight again. Just let it go Tony,'

But Tony complained to the commissioner, that it was getting out of hand, and Joe
Frazier was really getting pissed about Mr. Ali's constant 'dirty cuffing' behind the neck.

Edwin B. Dooley responded by telling Tony, 'You can warn him, but under no circumstances
are you allowed to penalize him a single-point, unless I say so.'

Referee - Tony Perez - 'My hands were tied. I was put in a stranglehold. I could have
penalized Muhammad Ali 5-points, or easily Disqualified him if he didn't obey my commands.'

Ali had the boxing powers ( ref's and judges ) on his side. Ali should not have won the 3rd Norton fight, and could have drawn or lost to Shavers. But you're right. I think Futch said he counted something like 73 holds behind the neck in the 2nd Ali vs Frazier fight.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by round15

Frazier lucky? C'mon McVey I'm surprised at you. Puhleeese!!! Unless Ali got hold of the stuff Liston used to blind him, Joe wasn't losing his sight. Manilla yes, but FOTC II no way.

According to Joe, Ali had no zip or sting on his punches. It was a shoeshine job and you don't have to post pictures of Joe's face after the fight to prove your point because it makes no sense.

Except for the right hand in the second round, Ali's punches were hardly dangerous. He was throwing shots for the judges scores, nothing more. Certainly he didn't have the conviction in his punches like he did against Frazier in the 14th round of Manilla or any other round in 1975. Very few punches that Ali threw in the FOTC II can compare with the murderess yet desperate intentions he had in Manilla.

If Frazier believed Ali had no zip or sting on his punches? How come he looked like a gargoyle after the fight?
Was Perez hitting him?
If you truly believe this, maybe it's you who has impaired vision.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Ali had the boxing powers ( ref's and judges ) on his side. Ali should not have won the 3rd Norton fight, and could have drawn or lost to Shavers. But you're right. I think Futch said he counted something like 73 holds behind the neck in the 2nd Ali vs Frazier fight.

That's two great black boxing heroes you believe got the benefit of dishonest judges/referees .
Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. Good job Martin Luther King didn't box.

[Lord Tywin]

A gargoyle? Frazier had a slight swelling by his right eye from the Ali jabs, and a slight swelling around his mouth. He hardly looked like a gargoyle, or like he had walked into a bees nest.

He certainly looked nowhere near as bad as he did in the first fight (which he won) or the third fight. Besides, since when is swelling indicative of a winner?

Frazier had a tendency to swell even in some fights he won fairly handily.

[Senor Pepe']

Round 3

Supposedly the Round after Muhammad Ali hurt Mr. Frazier.

It was Mr. Frazier who was pressing and winging, as Mr. Ali retreated and
punched, and of course 'cuffed' like a 'dirty man'.

The 'unclean' fouling continued, with an incredible '12' behind the neck cuffs,
and at least '4' times Mr. Ali used a 'filthy' pull down tactic.

Shocking, a total of '51-seconds' Mr. Ali was clocked cuffing Mr. Frazier behind
the neck.

Not 'one' warning by Tony Perez. After the bell, Mr. Frazier called out and said
'C'mon Tony, do something.'

[HOUDINI]

Where is the primary source for the information posted here? I've never read anything like this from Perez. Definitely made up garbage. Ali was not the first or last boxer to beat a crouching puncher via nullifying inside attack via holding. Heck watch Dempsey Tunney if you want to see this as well as many other bouts throughout boxing history.

[Senor Pepe']

Houdini,

You won't read this anywhere.

It was an interview Tony Perez did on the Spanish Network in New York City, back in 1975.

After the 'filthy' Muhammad Ali called Mr. Perez a 'dirty dog'.

[ETM]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Frazier was lucky Ali spent so much time holding, if he had hit him more Joe would have been blind after the halfway mark.
As it was Frazier looked like he had stuck his head in a bees nest .
Get real.

I am being real. Your emotional because obviously you love Ali and anything he does is Ok. If your want to tell me Ali was doing Joe a favor by holding him that would make you typical of many other Nuthugging Ali fans. Straighten UP.

In reality it was against the rules. Sometimes guys get away with a foul
thats part of boxing. In this case it was excessive holding and not only holding but grabbing Frazier behind the head and pulling him in so Joe couldnt work inside.

Should Ali have been DQd? Cant say because I dont know if Perez even warned him about it. Thats why I stated in my earlier post that he shouldve given Ali a warning and then deducted 1 point if it continued.

It depends on what Ali after that.

Why would the rules be any different for Ali? this is not complicated.

[ETM]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

So true,McVey

The only thing thats true is that Ali has alot of emotional fans.

[HOUDINI]

Total BS. This Pepe guy is a complete nutcase...bigtime.

[ETM]

Originally Posted by mcvey

If Frazier believed Ali had no zip or sting on his punches? How come he looked like a gargoyle after the fight?
Was Perez hitting him?

Frazier`s face looked pretty bad after the first fight and he won that. Joe Bugner even had Joe a little busted up not sure what it has to do with Ali ruining the fight by holding Frazier. If you actually think Ali did Frazier a favor by not letting him fight inside then I cant help any further.

Your better than this. I hope.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Total BS. This Pepe guy is a complete nutcase...bigtime.

I disagree.

[ecto55]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Total BS. This Pepe guy is a complete nutcase...bigtime.

Well, I fucking thankful someone on this forum is not posting one of those moronic "I'm an idjit - school me on Fighter X" threads..


But to make you comfortable, I post a three-way 'peak' Tua vs 'prime' Ibeabuchi vs "peaking but not quite prime" Tyson thread in a day or two...and then cap it off with a Top 5 hardest puchers eva thread.

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

I disagree.

I disagree also, as Pepe's either quoting from material (Spanish anyone?) thats not on the net (of which I've done also and been criticised- as ridiculous as that is...), OR, he's positing a counter-factual for debate...

Either way, I'm happy and don't care...there's something interesting on this forum... keep it up

[Senor Pepe']

ETM - Hands of Iron - ecto55

You gentlemen are objective posters, as opposed to Houdini is damn near
Muhammad Ali's 'weekend gardner'.

The Frazier - Ali II bout in January 1974 - is a clear case of a Referee who
'thought' about doing something, but didn't in fear of after fight criticism.

Mr. Ali 'holding' is one thing, but 'cuffing' behind the neck is an intentional
foul, just like hitting low, intentional thumbing or hitting after the bell.

After Round 3, Tony Perez shoud have went to Mr. Ali's corner and told him,
you have gotten away with that stuff long enough. Next time you do it, I'm
deducting a point.

Unfortunately, Tony Perez went to ringside, to discuss the issue with the
NYSAC Officials, who were more worried about getting Mr. Ali's next fight,
than clean play in the ring that night.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

A gargoyle? Frazier had a slight swelling by his right eye from the Ali jabs, and a slight swelling around his mouth. He hardly looked like a gargoyle, or like he had walked into a bees nest.

He certainly looked nowhere near as bad as he did in the first fight (which he won) or the third fight. Besides, since when is swelling indicative of a winner?

Frazier had a tendency to swell even in some fights he won fairly handily.

Its an indication that a boxer is getting hit with more than "shoeshine punches".