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Old 11-10-2012, 03:41 AM   #16
TheSouthpaw
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

And theres no way I dont give Oscar credit for beating those guys, Chavez or Whitaker was still a takin a chance fighting these guys...Oscar was just to much for Chavez and Sweet Pea..Period!
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

[quote=liljp361;14171350]no he was pretty good[/quote

He was more than just pretty good!,,
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
He's underrated because of a few flops on the big stage. He's faced and beaten so many quality fighters across so many divisions and given so many different looks stylistically. Few ever mention his skills when talking about classic boxers, and while he's not a technical wizard or anything, but he had a variety of tools people collectively seem to overlook.
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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Oscar was a PHENOMENAL boxer.

You can argue his greatness is overstated, but his abilities are not.

De La Hoya was as hyped as Kostya Tszyu by boxing trainers worldwide when he decided to try the pro thing. That should tell anybody who knows anything all they need to know.


At his peak, he was likely rated too highly, overestimated, like any guy who can be vicious inside the ring and a matinee idol/nice guy act outside the ring, but like happens, they love to set that pedestal up as high as they can before they kick you off the bastard. And the more successful you are the more detractors line up to lie in wait for you to hit the deck so they can kick you while you're down and shout "I told you so!", even if the "I told you so!" doesn't make a terrific amount of sense. (Case in point, even David Tua got an "I told you so!" thread here after bleeding Monte Barrett. As though that were even relevant).

Oscar got a huge backlash underrating after his peak love-fest. Pacquiao's probably started it himself, in the last year or so, and it's in its infancy. Wait a bit, it will get worse for him after the height he hit. The rubber band snaps back slowly sometimes. Roy got hit with it too. Tyson pretty badly. If Mayweather so much as has a close score card or loses in any way, there is a massive group that will be on his arse, even if he is faded himself. That's how it works, stupid as it is. But, damn, Oscar got it pretty harshly, I think. Considering what he put into the bank before losing his real relevance.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Oscar seems to get rated about right nowadays. A fwe years back there were his supporters who told you he was one of the very greatest of all time. Now there are some that whell out the 'lost all his big fights' card (not true)

Pretty one handed though was Oscar but boy what a left.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Judging from the opinions here, I would agree that Oscar is rated about right. He was very very good, willing to take on all comers and for that he should be applauded. Yes he blew the Trinidad fight, which is probably the biggest thing people hold against him.

I loved watching Oscar box, he was so quick and flowed really well, that left hand was a scorcher and he was involved in some very entertaining fights.

Is he the greatest of all time? No, but he had great abilities and beat some good names as well as losing to a few. If you mix it at the very top and are prepared to take on anyone then you are bound to take a few L's.

Oscar's place in boxing history is more than secure, it's selfish but I would like to see him take off the suit, dust off his trunks and have one more fight at around JMW or a catchweight against a fellow old timer. Win or lose. I didn't like seeing him go out in the Pacquiao fight the way he did, no disrespect to Manny, Oscar sought him out but he looked so bad at the weight. He doesn't have any reason to do it but it's something I'd like to see as long as he doesn't get hurt.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJD88 View Post
Judging from the opinions here, I would agree that Oscar is rated about right. He was very very good, willing to take on all comers and for that he should be applauded. Yes he blew the Trinidad fight, which is probably the biggest thing people hold against him.

I loved watching Oscar box, he was so quick and flowed really well, that left hand was a scorcher and he was involved in some very entertaining fights.

Is he the greatest of all time? No, but he had great abilities and beat some good names as well as losing to a few. If you mix it at the very top and are prepared to take on anyone then you are bound to take a few L's.

Oscar's place in boxing history is more than secure, it's selfish but I would like to see him take off the suit, dust off his trunks and have one more fight at around JMW or a catchweight against a fellow old timer. Win or lose. I didn't like seeing him go out in the Pacquiao fight the way he did, no disrespect to Manny, Oscar sought him out but he looked so bad at the weight. He doesn't have any reason to do it but it's something I'd like to see as long as he doesn't get hurt.
Nice post.

I wouldn't mind seeing him go out with a 'W' as well. Matt Hatton at 154 would be fine.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:58 AM   #22
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

If a guy fought like Sugar Ray Robinson, but didn't win, then he's not great. If a guy fights like Carlos Monzon and puts together Monzon's record then he's still great. Greatness is about results more than style. Oscar looked better than he was.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:03 AM   #23
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Oscar was something else.
His biggest problem was he was a ****en big star before his first professional fight. Pretty much fresh out of his teens sometimes his heart wasn't always there. Sometimes it felt like he really wanted to be anywhere else, and anybody else.


But all in all, there will never be another like him.

Also, Oscar is judged harsher than everyone else. The "elites" he lost to have about the same number of losses, and some to fighters one would hardly describe as elite. Oscar's win/loss ratio is about average for ATG fighters who didn't duck opponents.

Edit"
Having fought anyone who was anyone since day 1, 10x champion, unifying 2 divisions, all that alone says otherwise than he didn't win his fights.

Last edited by eliqueiros; 11-10-2012 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
If a guy fought like Sugar Ray Robinson, but didn't win, then he's not great. If a guy fights like Carlos Monzon and puts together Monzon's record then he's still great. Greatness is about results more than style. Oscar looked better than he was.
It is about results but sometimes the results are about the judges too. And while he got one he shouldn't have over Sturm, he also got robbed in a much more meaningful fight against Trinidad and a big resume/notsobigmeaning fight in the second Mosley bout. In my opinion anyway. I think ODLH did the correct work and was robbed of the correct results, there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJD88 View Post
Judging from the opinions here, I would agree that Oscar is rated about right. He was very very good, willing to take on all comers and for that he should be applauded. Yes he blew the Trinidad fight, which is probably the biggest thing people hold against him.

I loved watching Oscar box, he was so quick and flowed really well, that left hand was a scorcher and he was involved in some very entertaining fights.

Is he the greatest of all time? No, but he had great abilities and beat some good names as well as losing to a few. If you mix it at the very top and are prepared to take on anyone then you are bound to take a few L's.

Oscar's place in boxing history is more than secure, it's selfish but I would like to see him take off the suit, dust off his trunks and have one more fight at around JMW or a catchweight against a fellow old timer. Win or lose. I didn't like seeing him go out in the Pacquiao fight the way he did, no disrespect to Manny, Oscar sought him out but he looked so bad at the weight. He doesn't have any reason to do it but it's something I'd like to see as long as he doesn't get hurt.
But, you're judging from the rating of diehard boxing fanatics on a classic boxing forum, instead of the greater boxing follower community. I think Tyson's rated fairly here too, but they can't even treat him like a great fighter on ESPN's coverage of HOF induction, these days. You know what I mean?
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:11 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

LISTEN UP GUYS, THIS WILL END THE THREAD:


Having watched fights, researched and even looked at arguments all over youtube, I will like to enlighten you.

Oscar beats the mexican great warriors Ruelas, John John Molina, Leija, G. Hernandez at lightweight.

Beats a very good (not quite at his prime but still great) Chavez Sr, beats Gonzalez who at the time was regarded as great as Ricardo Lopez and Chavez Sr.

Beats Whitaker in my opinion as Oscar lands far more power punches and did more damage as a result, but for the sake of fairness I mentally register it as a draw. There is no way I have Whitaker winning the fight. Whitaker was no slower than he was during that fight, than in his prime.

Speaking of Whitaker, he arguably lost at LEAST once to Rivera. Oscar blitzed him.

Oscar also beats the very good Ike Quartey.

Oscar won the Trinidad fight. Everyone knows this. Even Oscar's trainer told Oscar during the latter rounds that Oscar was far ahead on the scorecards so should just keep running away and not get involved in a brawl, to ensure he got the win.

Oscar had a VERY close first fight with Mosley. Oh wait! Mosley was on steroids! Oscar beats Mosley in the rematch, outlands Mosley by almost 100 punches on compubox and boxing analysts say it's one of the biggest robberies in boxing history. Even Mosley said he lost the fight.

Oscar beats Vargas while Vargas was on steroids. Vargas beat greats like Winky Wright, Ike Quartey and was even stellar in the amateurs.

After winning the rematch against Mosley, Oscar was never the same again. Mentally I believe he became very comfortable with his fame by then, he was getting money that the likes of Mosley and even Mayweather at the time can only dream of. He had life easier. Due to this mental effect, he was no longer in his prime...hence why he lost against Felix Sturm, a guy who was meant to be a tune up fight for Bernard Hopkins. Obviously the fight against Hopkins ended in no other manner than a devestating KO loss for Oscar.

By the time he fought Mayweather, he was 34 years old and he had drug problems which further undoubtedly had an effect.

Pacquiao beat the shell of the elite Oscar, not the real Oscar:
1. Oscar's drug problems in 2008 became even worse, he had depression also as a result.
2. Oscar's ring age was old.
3. Oscar was 35 years old.
4. Oscar was drained from 154 to 145lbs catchweight. Understand that Oscar had been fighting comfortably at 154lbs since 2001! 7 years before the fight against Pacquiao.

Once people realise the truth about Oscar that I have mentioned, they will regard him as an ATG, who further puts him above Pacquiao.

Oscar has a better resume than Mayweather, although Mayweather in my view is a better fighter.

Last edited by anj; 11-10-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

I think he was a great fighter though don't know how he would of fared in the 15 round days, maybe he didn't have great stamina. It's true he's got some losses on his career but what can you say, he never ducked nobody. Plenty of other top fighters would have more if they were consistently fighting at that level.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

anj comes up trumps with some shocking 'facts' again.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:21 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
anj comes up trumps with some shocking 'facts' again.
Thanks. It's a shame some people just don't have much of an opinion of ODLH because he has 'losses' from the elite, rather than look at the facts.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:23 AM   #29
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Actually, Ishimatsu the "DOMINANT lightweight" was a complete revelation to me.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

does he make peoples top 100 or 200 all time? i can't really do long lists but i think he would end up lower down than on media lists i have seen (even non golden boy products) were he is often rated 50 - 100th
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