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Old 11-10-2012, 05:32 AM   #31
anj
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
Actually, Ishimatsu the "DOMINANT lightweight" was a complete revelation to me.
The statement I made in my ODLH comment puts the issue to death.
I have my opinions about Guts, I think he was a quality fighter and did have a solid winning streak which did make him A dominant force in the lightweight division at the time of Duran. Duran got himself a good win. Guts was no cab driver.
I don't mind being mistaken as I'm actually learning some things on this forum. There are some people on this forum who have some sort of OCD problem where they feel they have to be right and throw trollish jabs at those who should simply be corrected. What'd be even more pathetic is if these people behind the laptop/computer were grown men LOL Great examples to younger men like me. Complex + Middle age + troll like behaviour = not a good example for younger men like me haha
Let's just keep to the topic of discussion with is ODLH.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Okay, you said Raul Marquez was a 'great' fighter in this thread. An even worse overrating than of Guts.

You are a disgrace to all British posters.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:53 AM   #33
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Your mixture of nut huggers, haters and level heads. This thread is a microcosm of Oscar's current standing.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:59 AM   #34
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Okay, you said Raul Marquez was a 'great' fighter in this thread. An even worse overrating than of Guts.

You are a disgrace to all British posters.
LOL relax, my friend. 'You are a disgrace to all British posters' Oh the horror, as if it's a professional job haha. If I'm wrong, tell me why. Share the knowledge we're all a part of the same community

I agree with you. I'll edit that bit out.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:02 AM   #35
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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LOL relax, my friend. 'You are a disgrace to all British posters' Oh the horror, as if it's a professional job haha. If I'm wrong, tell me why. Share the knowledge we're all a part of the same community

I agree with you. I'll edit that bit out.
No longer a disgrace.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by anj View Post
The statement I made in my ODLH comment puts the issue to death.
I have my opinions about Guts, I think he was a quality fighter and did have a solid winning streak which did make him A dominant force in the lightweight division at the time of Duran. Duran got himself a good win. Guts was no cab driver.
I don't mind being mistaken as I'm actually learning some things on this forum. There are some people on this forum who have some sort of OCD problem where they feel they have to be right and throw trollish jabs at those who should simply be corrected. What'd be even more pathetic is if these people behind the laptop/computer were grown men LOL Great examples to younger men like me. Complex + Middle age + troll like behaviour = not a good example for younger men like me haha
Let's just keep to the topic of discussion with is ODLH.


There was a lot of material to chew on from that post, I just found it genuinely humorous how you went to the lengths of capitalizing the word. It also struck as though you were stating concrete facts that had better be recognized rather than opinions to be simply and delicately corrected. I wish Duran's record was that insuperable... And I don't hide behind anything.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
The statement I made in my ODLH comment puts the issue to death.
I have my opinions about Guts, I think he was a quality fighter and did have a solid winning streak which did make him A dominant force in the lightweight division at the time of Duran. Duran got himself a good win. Guts was no cab driver.
I don't mind being mistaken as I'm actually learning some things on this forum. There are some people on this forum who have some sort of OCD problem where they feel they have to be right and throw trollish jabs at those who should simply be corrected. What'd be even more pathetic is if these people behind the laptop/computer were grown men LOL Great examples to younger men like me. Complex + Middle age + troll like behaviour = not a good example for younger men like me haha
Let's just keep to the topic of discussion with is ODLH.
Again, the issue is 'dominant force'. You might well have a good grasp on Guts, but not with the correct terms to describe where he was at in his career at that time.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

I just watched the De La Hoya vs Whitaker fight.

Rd1 10-9 Whitaker: Both fighters threw and landed about the same. I gave the close round to Whitaker for being the aggressor and taking the fight to De La Hoya.
Rd2 10-9 De La Hoya: Whitaker putting on one of his greatest displays of untouchability making De La Hoya miss and miss, but not landing anything meaningful of his own.
Rd3 10-8 De La Hoya: Oscar landing uppercuts in close. A slip and a headbut, with a flurry and both men exchanging hard shots at the end. Oscar gets a mandatory second point for his cut according to the WBC. What kind of rule is that which favors fighters who cut easily?
Rd4 10-9 Whitaker: Whitaker dodging punches. Oscar throws a flurry at the end and nothing sticks. Oscar did some decent ducking bobbing and weaving himself.
Rd5 10-9 Whitaker: Whitaker elusive and winning by dint of superior jabbing and ring generalship. Crowd cheers as De La Hoya swats at air.
Rd6 10-9 De La Hoya: De La Hoya switches stance to southpaw and lands a bomb. Holds and hits in the clinch doing some of his best work. Whitaker gets frustrated, holds and hits, gets warned by Mills Lane.
Rd7 10-9 Whitaker: The fighters tangle up and fall to the canvas. Whitaker lands a good body shot. Oscar feints but Whitaker doesn't flinch. Oscar postures after the bell.
Rd8 10-9 De La Hoya: De La Hoya's round on the basis of one left hook. Looked like they were taking a breather and Whitaker was clowning, mugging for the crowd.
Rd9 10-8 Whitaker: Whitaker scored a knockdown off a light punch, where De La hoya was off balance and his knee and hand touched the canvas. Balances the cut point. Whitaker was winning the round before that by staying aggressive, landing more punches, landing better punches and exchanging with Oscar.
Rd10 10-9 De La Hoya: Close round but Whitaker lands a jab and Oscar lands a power shot. Some more holding and hitting. Oscar has widened his stance to stabilize himself after last round's knockdown. He's not rushing in anymore, but countering when Whitaker rushes him to good effect.
Rd11 Whitaker 10-9: Oscar tries to be elusive and use lateral movement. Bigger, taller, stronger, younger man looking cowardly. Whitaker bullies him around the ring and batters him against the ropes.
Rd12 Tie It's like they both agreed not to fight this last round.

7 points Whitaker, 6 points De La Hoya. If you gave the last round to De La Hoya it would still be a draw. It sure as hell wasn't a 116-110 match the way the judges saw it.

Chavez and Whitaker are both 34 and 36 when De La Hoya catches them, the same age as he was when Floyd and Pac caught him. The wins are equal. Whitaker and him both had the same amount of fights and coke habits. I'd say their mileage was about the same. Chavez had about sixty more fights than either. If De La Hoya's wins over Chavez and Whitaker are big wins then his losses to Pac and Floyd have to be just as big losses.

I don't have my score card from the De La Hoya Trinidad fight anymore, but I had De La Hoya with a commanding lead going into the last couple of rounds. But I had him losing them as 10-8 rounds and losing the decision. If you only scored the last rounds 10-9 he'd probably still have won. But that running sickened me, and if your opponent is just running away from you for 3 minutes without even throwing punches that is total dominance and a 10-8 round in my eyes. He had the fight won and he threw it away.

It probably cushioned the blow that he walked away with $24 million dollars for what was one of the worst boxing matches ever. Look at both men at the end of the bout. They look fresh and unmarked, like they could fight again. It wasn't the fight of the millenium, it was the opposite of war.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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I'm a huge ODLH fan have been his entire career, So I believe the only real argument True Oscar fans have is that he lost all his biggest fights..Tito Trinidad, Shane Mosley, Bernard Hopkins, etc...So how much does that blimish his legacy, if any? Why and how did he lose that fight against Trinidad!..

Still a HOF fame fighter, but the losses to the big names do blemish his legacy a tad.


Ocsar went gun shy in the later portion of his career, likely because his power didn't carry well when he moved up in weight, and he never had a rock for a chin.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:20 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Did we ever see Oscar badly hurt after he was a skinny kid? Not that I remember.

It's his stamina that was the issue. He didn't look gun shy when pouring it on to stop Vargas in the 11th round (was that late wasn't it? Haven't watched it for a while)

Kingfisher3 I rank Oscar in the top 100. I felt he beat Trinidad and Shane the second time round.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:34 PM   #41
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Greatest boxers of the 90's -- where does he rank?
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

In the 90's and at WW he may rank number 1
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
The statement I made in my ODLH comment puts the issue to death.
I have my opinions about Guts, I think he was a quality fighter and did have a solid winning streak which did make him A dominant force in the lightweight division at the time of Duran. Duran got himself a good win. Guts was no cab driver.
I don't mind being mistaken as I'm actually learning some things on this forum. There are some people on this forum who have some sort of OCD problem where they feel they have to be right and throw trollish jabs at those who should simply be corrected. What'd be even more pathetic is if these people behind the laptop/computer were grown men LOL Great examples to younger men like me. Complex + Middle age + troll like behaviour = not a good example for younger men like me haha
Let's just keep to the topic of discussion with is ODLH.
I agree my man, you get used to all the know it alls though..just remember theyre right no matter what and theres no sense in arguing with them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

[quote=Aaron Contreras;14173668]Greatest boxers of the 90's -- where does he rank?[/quote

Top 3
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:57 PM   #45
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Okay, you said Raul Marquez was a 'great' fighter in this thread. An even worse overrating than of Guts.

You are a disgrace to all British posters.

Right on...
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