Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Houdini,

You won't read this anywhere.

It was an interview Tony Perez did on the Spanish Network in New York City, back in 1975.

After the 'filthy' Muhammad Ali called Mr. Perez a 'dirty dog'.

You're dead right about that.
"Tell me lies, tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies."

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by ETM

I am being real. Your emotional because obviously you love Ali and anything he does is Ok. If your want to tell me Ali was doing Joe a favor by holding him that would make you typical of many other Nuthugging Ali fans. Straighten UP.

In reality it was against the rules. Sometimes guys get away with a foul
thats part of boxing. In this case it was excessive holding and not only holding but grabbing Frazier behind the head and pulling him in so Joe couldnt work inside.

Should Ali have been DQd? Cant say because I dont know if Perez even warned him about it. Thats why I stated in my earlier post that he shouldve given Ali a warning and then deducted 1 point if it continued.

It depends on what Ali after that.

Why would the rules be any different for Ali? this is not complicated.

You dont know if Perez warned Ali yet you make a statement on it ?

When I implied Ali was doing Frazier a favour ,I was being facetious.
I assumed that was obvious. You probably think Frazier deserved the nod in that fight. Poor old Joe he would not want to miss this , having his balls licked by so many devotees.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

ETM - Hands of Iron - ecto55

You gentlemen are objective posters, as opposed to Houdini is damn near
Muhammad Ali's 'weekend gardner'.

The Frazier - Ali II bout in January 1974 - is a clear case of a Referee who
'thought' about doing something, but didn't in fear of after fight criticism.

Mr. Ali 'holding' is one thing, but 'cuffing' behind the neck is an intentional
foul, just like hitting low, intentional thumbing or hitting after the bell.

After Round 3, Tony Perez shoud have went to Mr. Ali's corner and told him,
you have gotten away with that stuff long enough. Next time you do it, I'm
deducting a point.

Unfortunately, Tony Perez went to ringside, to discuss the issue with the
NYSAC Officials, who were more worried about getting Mr. Ali's next fight,
than clean play in the ring that night.

First I heard Kinshasa was in NYState
Ali's next 8 fights ,after Frazier 2 were outside NY

[Stevie G]

I'm not claiming that Muhammad did n't go over the top with the amount of clinches,but I don't see it making any signifigant difference to the end result.
Ali would still have won on that night no matter what.

[yancey]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

I'm not claiming that Muhammad did n't go over the top with the amount of clinches,but I don't see it making any signifigant difference to the end result.
Ali would still have won on that night no matter what.

Who in hell are you to decide that?

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by yancey

Who in hell are you to decide that?

Angelo Dundee's niece.

All of the Senor Pepe haters need to cool it... Save for some of his slick jabs at Ray Leonard, he adds a lot of color and character to this lovely little forum and sparks invigorating debate.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by yancey

Who in hell are you to decide that?

A boxing fan same as you are. We all have our opinions,and that happens to be mine. Nobody else has any problem with what your own view happens to be.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Angelo Dundee's niece.

All of the Senor Pepe haters need to cool it... Save for some of his slick jabs at Ray Leonard, he adds a lot of color and character to this lovely little forum and sparks invigorating debate.

I agree that Pepe does indeed post interesting threads. I'm CERTAINLY not one of those 'haters' whom you're referring to.

[Senor Pepe']

Originally Posted by mcvey

[/u]


First I heard Kinshasa was in NYState
Ali's next 8 fights ,after Frazier 2 were outside NY

Mcvey,

Madison Square Garden was 'bidding' to get Muhammad Ali's next fight.

Mr. Ali promised to have his next fight at Madison Square Garden.

Of course, he 'lied' as usual.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Mendoza
Ali had the boxing powers ( ref's and judges ) on his side. Ali should not have won the 3rd Norton fight, and could have drawn or lost to Shavers. But you're right. I think Futch said he counted something like 73 holds behind the neck in the 2nd Ali vs Frazier fight.

Originally Posted by mcvey

That's two great black boxing heroes you believe got the benefit of dishonest judges/referees .
Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. Good job Martin Luther King didn't box.

That has nothing to do with it you reverse racists. Watch the flims for a change. You will see Pepe is correct. And the scoring in some Louis fights was horrible.

I said the Helenius vs Chosira decision was bad. Chisora won in my book. Remember that one? I call them as I see them, but if it doesn't coincide with your wanton political interests, you play the race card. " By any means necessary " would be a good motto for your sorry ass.

[Longhhorn71]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Referee - Tony Perez,

January 28, 1974 (Madison Square Garden)

Joe Frazier vs. Muhmmad Ali II

'I consider it a bad performance by myself as a Referee. The holding, clinching
and dirty tactics used by Mr. Ali were obviously intentional fouls.
I wanted to use my authority as the 'Third Man in the Ring', but I was
under pressure from the higher ups to let it go.'

'I did discuss the fouling with the New York State Athletic Commission
Officials at Ringside several times, but they told me not to do anything
because Muhammad Ali would cry fouls of racism.'

'But it was getting ridiculous, and Muhammad was going overboard with
those very dirty holds behind Joe Frazier's neck. Joe looked at me at least
15-times, and said 'C'mon Tony do something.'

Everyone who saw the fight "live" knew Ali should have had major point deductions or a DQ added to him.

Ali pulled some of the same stuff on Foreman too.

[Senor Pepe']

Round 6,

'The Ridiculous Six', as Dick Young called it.

Thru '5-Rounds', Tony Perez had 'not' warned 'dirty' Mr. Ali once.

In the round, in which Mr. Ali did box quite well, he was still guilty of committing
'11' cuffing fouls.

A total of '58-seconds' of his hand pulling down on Mr. Frazier's neck.

Every time Mr. Ali would throw a quick-punch flurry, he would immediately wrap
one of his arms over Mr. Frazier's neck, and cuff the back of his neck as Joe Frazier
moved in.

This is an 'intentional foul', and warrants a point deduction every time employed.

Dick Young, who was at Ringside, screamed at Tony Perez, saying, 'Your Ridiculous Tony.'

Everyone at ringside started laughing at Tony Perez, and started calling him 'Referee Ridiculous'

[orriray59]

--Tony Perez--

'Ali fought brilliantly that night,'

says referee from Ali-Frazier 2

'Ain't never seen a master like that, 'twas beautiful'

[Senor Pepe']

'Referee Hall of Shame'

Coined the famous phrase, 'Where's Tony'

[Unforgiven]

Didn't Ali call Perez a '****' ?

Ali accused Perez of being paid by gamblers to save Joe from getting KO'd early.

I think Ali did what he needed to do to win, but the fight was close.
Sure, the referee could have warned him, deducted points, possibly DQ'd him because the 'neck -hold' was getting ridiculous.
I'm not sure how much Eddie Futch protested at the time. Futch was a great cornerman but seemed a very gentle man. If it was Angelo Dundee in Joe's corner you would have heard him cursing Perez in his face and that might have made an impact.
I'm not sure of this, I don't know. Just speculating.