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Old 11-10-2012, 07:00 PM   #46
TheSouthpaw
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Oscar seems to get rated about right nowadays. A fwe years back there were his supporters who told you he was one of the very greatest of all time. Now there are some that whell out the 'lost all his big fights' card (not true)

Pretty one handed though was Oscar but boy what a left.

One of my favorite lefts of all time in these divisions Flea.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:01 PM   #47
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

And for those who say he didnt lose all his biggest fights..Do explain!
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Still overrated generally. I'll break down what Oscar does well and what he does badly, I'll start with what he does badly:

1. Fights in spurts, he doesn't like to fight 3mins of a round and rarely does. He often looks to use flurries to win rounds
2. Defence and timing aren't too good and against better defences is inaccurate
3. Because of 1 and 2, not a great ring general
4. Weak right

What he does well

1. Fast hands
2. Top class chin
3. Very big strong at his prime weights
4. Excellent jab and left hook, although not quite as good as his fans make it out to be
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #49
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Still overrated generally. I'll break down what Oscar does well and what he does badly, I'll start with what he does badly:

1. Fights in spurts, he doesn't like to fight 3mins of a round and rarely does. He often looks to use flurries to win rounds
2. Defence and timing aren't too good and against better defences is inaccurate
3. Because of 1 and 2, not a great ring general
4. Weak right

What he does well

1. Fast hands
2. Top class chin
3. Very big strong at his prime weights
4. Excellent jab and left hook, although not quite as good as his fans make it out to be
Top class chin!!!..Well said!
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

On things he did wrong # 4...I dont believe is right was all that weak

And # 4 of things he did well, His jab and his left hook may be BETTER than most people believe..
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:49 PM   #51
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Top 30, for me. Better tham Mayweather.

Boxing fans complain about boxing today, the top guys don't fight each other etc... the old timer were heaps better , they had great resumes as they all fought each other, so what if they had a few loses , as they fought the best etc...

Along comes Oscar fights everyone, has some wins over fellow greats and a couple loses, but fights great boxers even one of the top MW of all times but has a couple loses along the way , how do boxing fans return reward one of the boxers that fights all comers like the old timers that they love? , by saying shit like he lost all his big fights.

Then they complain why more boxers are not looking to unify and or fight the best out there, the boxers and / or promoters are not stupid , they see what happens to boxers that take on the best and have a coupe losses , it is much safer to pick , choose and dodge curtin boxers to keep your look of invicability.

Oscar, Mosley , Ike , Tito and Sweet Pea were all WW around the same time , who is the only one to fight all of them? , he loses one and suddenly he is nothing , why didn't they all fight each other to see who was the best of them? if they all fought the other four , who would not come out with a loss to his record?
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:51 PM   #52
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Better than Mayweather...Now thats what I want to hear!
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:53 PM   #53
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Top 30, for me. Better tham Mayweather.

Boxing fans complain about boxing today, the top guys don't fight each other etc... the old timer were heaps better , they had great resumes as they all fought each other, so what if they had a few loses , as they fought the best etc...

Along comes Oscar fights everyone, has some wins over fellow greats and a couple loses, but fights great boxers even one of the top MW of all times but has a couple loses along the way , how do boxing fans return reward one of the boxers that fights all comers like the old timers that they love? , by saying shit like he lost all his big fights.

Then they complain why more boxers are not looking to unify and or fight the best out there, the boxers and / or promoters are not stupid , they see what happens to boxers that take on the best and have a coupe losses , it is much safer to pick , choose and dodge curtin boxers to keep your look of invicability.

Oscar, Mosley , Ike , Tito and Sweet Pea were all WW around the same time , who is the only one to fight all of them? , he loses one and suddenly he is nothing , why didn't they all fight each other to see who was the best of them? if they all fought the other four , who would not come out with a loss to his record?
Who is the one to fight them al!?..well said my man!
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:02 PM   #54
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Who is the one to fight them al!?..well said my man!
Hopkins is one of the best MW's ever , him top win at MW ? , Tito.

Who beat Tito first & at his better weight?

Which former SFW gave Hopkins (a former LHW) all he could handle for the first 8 rounds before being KO'd?
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:19 PM   #55
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Top 30, for me. Better tham Mayweather.

Boxing fans complain about boxing today, the top guys don't fight each other etc... the old timer were heaps better , they had great resumes as they all fought each other, so what if they had a few loses , as they fought the best etc...

Along comes Oscar fights everyone, has some wins over fellow greats and a couple loses, but fights great boxers even one of the top MW of all times but has a couple loses along the way , how do boxing fans return reward one of the boxers that fights all comers like the old timers that they love? , by saying shit like he lost all his big fights.

Then they complain why more boxers are not looking to unify and or fight the best out there, the boxers and / or promoters are not stupid , they see what happens to boxers that take on the best and have a coupe losses , it is much safer to pick , choose and dodge curtin boxers to keep your look of invicability.

Oscar, Mosley , Ike , Tito and Sweet Pea were all WW around the same time , who is the only one to fight all of them? , he loses one and suddenly he is nothing , why didn't they all fight each other to see who was the best of them? if they all fought the other four , who would not come out with a loss to his record?
Short memories, Oscar was called Chicken Delahoya from 97-99 when he/Arum avoided the Whitaker rematch and didn't unify. Then Oscar fights Oscar fights Quartey after his very serious case of Malaria and a Trinidad struggling to make weight. He gets a gift and a robbery decision imo. Everyone was calling for a Trinidad rematch, it never happened.

Oscar rebuilds, avoiding Forrest to fight a Mosley coming up in weight, loses, comes backs rebuilding his career, where he beats Vargas, a pretty good win. Still he avoids Winky Wright at 154 although eventually post Hopkins he did offer him a lowball sum for a fight. Instead he rematches Mosley who was 0-1-2 coming into the fight again going up in weight. He probably deserved to win that one

He fought allot of top names, but he did want the deck stacked in his favour, make no mistake, even at the end, Mayweather at 154 and Pacquaio moving up 2 divisions. Vernon Forrest asked laughing 'can I fight Marquez'

No he didn't lose all his big fights, he has some quality wins, he's a very very good fighter, but not better than Forrest or Quartey or Wright for my money, he just got more big fights (stacked in his favour) being the bigger draw, some he lost, some he won

Let's not pretend his career wasn't very cleverly stage managed or he took on all comers either as good as some of those names on his record are
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:05 PM   #56
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

He is like most great/border line greats over rated by some and under rated by some. At his best he is a tough out for just about anyone in his weight class (except 154+), and there are few if any I believe could just walk through him...
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:22 AM   #57
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by Gesta View Post
Top 30, for me. Better tham Mayweather.

Boxing fans complain about boxing today, the top guys don't fight each other etc... the old timer were heaps better , they had great resumes as they all fought each other, so what if they had a few loses , as they fought the best etc...

Along comes Oscar fights everyone, has some wins over fellow greats and a couple loses, but fights great boxers even one of the top MW of all times but has a couple loses along the way , how do boxing fans return reward one of the boxers that fights all comers like the old timers that they love? , by saying shit like he lost all his big fights.

Then they complain why more boxers are not looking to unify and or fight the best out there, the boxers and / or promoters are not stupid , they see what happens to boxers that take on the best and have a coupe losses , it is much safer to pick , choose and dodge curtin boxers to keep your look of invicability.

Oscar, Mosley , Ike , Tito and Sweet Pea were all WW around the same time , who is the only one to fight all of them? , he loses one and suddenly he is nothing , why didn't they all fight each other to see who was the best of them? if they all fought the other four , who would not come out with a loss to his record?
Evander Holyfield was a better 90s fighter who fought everybody and actually got wins. Past prime Holmes, Dokes, Thomas, Foreman, prime Tyson, Bowe, Moorer, Mercer, Douglas, past prime gets a Lewis draw, and then at the age of forty picks off Ruiz and Rahman. That's what it looks like to fight everybody, and most of those guys had about 30 pounds on him and half a foot of height. He made as much money as De La Hoya but was worth every penny, and he won a bunch of his toughest fights; so people love him and continue to rate him highly.

Zab Judah has great speed and style. He fights everybody and loses all of his big name fights just like Oscar. He lost to Kostya Tszyu, Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Khan. He fights everybody and he loses to everybody. It's called being a gatekeeper.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:41 AM   #58
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Short memories, Oscar was called Chicken Delahoya from 97-99 when he/Arum avoided the Whitaker rematch and didn't unify. Then Oscar fights Oscar fights Quartey after his very serious case of Malaria and a Trinidad struggling to make weight. He gets a gift and a robbery decision imo. Everyone was calling for a Trinidad rematch, it never happened.

Oscar rebuilds, avoiding Forrest to fight a Mosley coming up in weight, loses, comes backs rebuilding his career, where he beats Vargas, a pretty good win. Still he avoids Winky Wright at 154 although eventually post Hopkins he did offer him a lowball sum for a fight. Instead he rematches Mosley who was 0-1-2 coming into the fight again going up in weight. He probably deserved to win that one

He fought allot of top names, but he did want the deck stacked in his favour, make no mistake, even at the end, Mayweather at 154 and Pacquaio moving up 2 divisions. Vernon Forrest asked laughing 'can I fight Marquez'

No he didn't lose all his big fights, he has some quality wins, he's a very very good fighter, but not better than Forrest or Quartey or Wright for my money, he just got more big fights (stacked in his favour) being the bigger draw, some he lost, some he won

Let's not pretend his career wasn't very cleverly stage managed or he took on all comers either as good as some of those names on his record are

Fought and beat Sweet Pea, Ike & Tito (first 2 were very close) , so what if he is not give them rematches he fought them at least, which cannot be said of all the others. Tito was asking for the magority share which was not going to fly , Tito was a WW what was Oscar to do?

Don't know the time line to not fight Forrest (was this around the time when he lost to Mayorga?), but I am sure he had his reasons , But he avenged he loss to SSM instead. Winky is not to be trusted with making carrer disisions, fought Hopkins instead around the same time.

Oscar is way better than Forrest, Winky & Ike.

Oscar pretty much took on all comers even if he tried to stack the odds in his favour (worst was cherry picking Pac), he was the money go to guy , you wanted to be the next star you had to fight Oscar. Floyd was the next star after that and was in a hot WW division and chose to retire intead of fighting the best WW of his time then ducked a former Flyweight that was cleaning the WW house.

Better than Floyd & Hopkins who had to leave his own division (where he is ranked as one of the best ever) becuase he could not beat Jermain Taylor, but is known as a ATG for beating Robert Allan & Echols for 25% of his MW defences
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
Evander Holyfield was a better 90s fighter who fought everybody and actually got wins. Past prime Holmes, Dokes, Thomas, Foreman, prime Tyson, Bowe, Moorer, Mercer, Douglas, past prime gets a Lewis draw, and then at the age of forty picks off Ruiz and Rahman. That's what it looks like to fight everybody, and most of those guys had about 30 pounds on him and half a foot of height. He made as much money as De La Hoya but was worth every penny, and he won a bunch of his toughest fights; so people love him and continue to rate him highly.

Zab Judah has great speed and style. He fights everybody and loses all of his big name fights just like Oscar. He lost to Kostya Tszyu, Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Khan. He fights everybody and he loses to everybody. It's called being a gatekeeper.
Beat John John, MAG , Hernandez , Chevez (Old) Sweet Pea (close), Ike (Could have gone either way) , Vargas, SSM 2 , Tito . Which were all big fights at the time.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:03 PM   #60
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Default Re: Is De La Hoya overated?

Better than Floyd? That I can see. Top 30? No chance IMO.
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