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Old 11-11-2012, 11:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

I have to say, in the last 60 years, there has not been any Major changes in Sport, that have been of Major Benefit. People change names of routines, but they have always been there. I was doing HIT routines 40 years ago, called them Olympic Circuits. Same with weights, they created Machines and told everybody, that was the way to go, made more sense, it made more Money . Now according to Test, its all Bollocks. I remember a Professor Pal of mine calling Me, Scrap, they have found new Muscles. You having a laugh I asked, No He said they are Cor muscles. Change the name, people will buy it. Its True. .
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:00 PM   #17
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allow me to argue...
You are basically saying the old-timers did different things different ways, this is why they were better than the modern guys, right?

allow me to argue...
you are basically saying the old-timers did different things different ways, this is why they were better than the modern guys, right?

no i donít think that is what he meant. Why is it that you cannot criticize or comment on s&c? Everybody is entitled to do what works for them and not be put down as dinosaurs or know nothings cos the new is so superior to old school, that there is no need to argue the point cos youíll only going to look dumb when the s&c guys whip out their credentials, masters degree, this certification or that, muscle twitch fibers explosiveness blah blah.
seems the s&c guys want to convince everybody that only they can make a fighter better in every possible way, and if you donít agree you are way stoooooopit.

you mentioned the second coming of big george...well, first of all, he became a believer. Maybe this is the most important different between modern and old fighter?

omg, you have to be an s&c guy



i am not talking about the religion and such..more generally, beliefs spring actions. Modern generation believes that nutrition, special exercises, routines
can provide a shortcut. These beliefs explain their action. I guess, and it is almost conviction, that old timers just did not believe in shortcut. This is it!
it is really simple, what they did worked for them. It's not about shortcuts or which is better.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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I have to say, in the last 60 years, there has not been any Major changes in Sport, that have been of Major Benefit. People change names of routines, but they have always been there. I was doing HIT routines 40 years ago, called them Olympic Circuits. Same with weights, they created Machines and told everybody, that was the way to go, made more sense, it made more Money . Now according to Test, its all Bollocks. I remember a Professor Pal of mine calling Me, Scrap, they have found new Muscles. You having a laugh I asked, No He said they are Cor muscles. Change the name, people will buy it. Its True. .
Nonsense. The advances made in understanding about the properties of tendons, the neuromuscular system, how the body adapts and how gene expression is altered through different types of training has exploded in recent times. And when you understand something you can manipulate it.
Yes a weight will always be a weight but it's about what you do with it. Little advances make big differences, the world isn't going to be reinvented.
I think you're getting the fitness industry mixed up with the sports science/research industry.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:54 AM   #19
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Nonsense. The advances made in understanding about the properties of tendons, the neuromuscular system, how the body adapts and how gene expression is altered through different types of training has exploded in recent times. And when you understand something you can manipulate it.
Yes a weight will always be a weight but it's about what you do with it. Little advances make big differences, the world isn't going to be reinvented.
I think you're getting the fitness industry mixed up with the sports science/research industry.
Yep, right, aha, neuromuscular, properties, tendons, advances, gene expressions oh my! Boxing trainers while not as educated as the new S&C guys, still has done a fantastic job for over 200 yrs, developing many, many, many ATG's, HOF'rs, and have fine tuned their training over the yrs. The problem seems to be the S&C guys, are trying to bully their way in.
Let's get this straight, S&C is but one component of a training program. S&C guys now demand as much time or more than a boxing trainer. When people wonder why the skill level has decreased over the yrs as the bodies have looked better. Hmmmm, makes you wonder. Julio Cesar Chavez sr did alright without a six pack.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
Nonsense. The advances made in understanding about the properties of tendons, the neuromuscular system, how the body adapts and how gene expression is altered through different types of training has exploded in recent times. And when you understand something you can manipulate it.
Yes a weight will always be a weight but it's about what you do with it. Little advances make big differences, the world isn't going to be reinvented.
I think you're getting the fitness industry mixed up with the sports science/research industry.
I think maybe you are. Yes when you understand something you can manipulate it but scraps point is he's manipulating it the same way he was 40 years ago.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:02 AM   #21
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Yep, right, aha, neuromuscular, properties, tendons, advances, gene expressions oh my! Boxing trainers while not as educated as the new S&C guys, still has done a fantastic job for over 200 yrs, developing many, many, many ATG's, HOF'rs, and have fine tuned their training over the yrs. The problem seems to be the S&C guys, are trying to bully their way in.
Let's get this straight, S&C is but one component of a training program. S&C guys now demand as much time or more than a boxing trainer. When people wonder why the skill level has decreased over the yrs as the bodies have looked better. Hmmmm, makes you wonder. Julio Cesar Chavez sr did alright without a six pack.
This is nonsense,the skill levels droped cause people started to get lazy or the trainers got lazy and people dont go in boxing so much cause in other sports you can make better money without getting hit in the head.It aint certainly the fault of s&c coaches.
And i suggest you stop with all the sarcastic bullshit as well.If you dont understand it dont mock it.
You say your not against s&c coaches,but in every one of your posts you seem like you hate them and find them uneccesary.

Last edited by pecho26; 11-12-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:39 AM   #22
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Yep, right, aha, neuromuscular, properties, tendons, advances, gene expressions oh my! Boxing trainers while not as educated as the new S&C guys, still has done a fantastic job for over 200 yrs, developing many, many, many ATG's, HOF'rs, and have fine tuned their training over the yrs. The problem seems to be the S&C guys, are trying to bully their way in.
Let's get this straight, S&C is but one component of a training program. S&C guys now demand as much time or more than a boxing trainer. When people wonder why the skill level has decreased over the yrs as the bodies have looked better. Hmmmm, makes you wonder. Julio Cesar Chavez sr did alright without a six pack.
Yeah you're a dumb cunt, I don't care what you say.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:42 AM   #23
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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I think maybe you are. Yes when you understand something you can manipulate it but scraps point is he's manipulating it the same way he was 40 years ago.
I said that he's getting it confused because he's talking about making money and selling a product, that's the fitness industry. Core training was the big thing for a while, it's just a group of muscles but the fitness industry makes it sound like it's something new.. I thought that's what Scrap was talking about?
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:43 AM   #24
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Nonsense. The advances made in understanding about the properties of tendons, the neuromuscular system, how the body adapts and how gene expression is altered through different types of training has exploded in recent times. And when you understand something you can manipulate it.
Yes a weight will always be a weight but it's about what you do with it. Little advances make big differences, the world isn't going to be reinvented.
I think you're getting the fitness industry mixed up with the sports science/research industry.
One thing that has not changed, to my knowledge, is Newtons Law. Its understanding that, and the consequences it has, and what it implies to movement.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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One thing that has not changed, to my knowledge, is Newtons Law. Its understanding that, and the consequences it has, and what it implies to movement.
Yes but a human body/muscle tendon unit isn't some basic 1+1 shit, there's optimal oscillation, hysteresis of tendons, stiffness/compliance of the SEC, muscle pennation, relative muscle insertion, relative lever length, fibre composition, fibre length, neural inhibitory mechanisms, neural learning for optimal damping of vibrations etc. Anybody who claims that they know what's what is full of shit, nobody knows all the factors behind plyometric trainings effectiveness for example. There is more and more research being done and while we still don't know much for sure we have a far better idea than anyone did even 10 years ago. Most S+C coaches are useless but they still are nowhere near as useless as the average boxing trainer is when it comes to understanding the human body.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:22 AM   #26
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

[quote=dealt_with;14187036]Yes but a human body/muscle tendon unit isn't some basic 1+1 shit, there's optimal oscillation, hysteresis of tendons, stiffness/compliance of the SEC, muscle pennation, relative muscle insertion, relative lever length, fibre composition, fibre length, neural inhibitory mechanisms, neural learning for optimal damping of vibrations etc. Anybody who claims that they know what's what is full of shit, nobody knows all the factors behind plyometric trainings effectiveness for example. There is more and more research being done and while we still don't know much for sure we have a far better idea than anyone did even 10 years ago. Most S+C coaches are useless but they still are nowhere near as useless as the average boxing trainer is when it comes to understanding the human body.[/ Now that makes sense, Fair points. Its applying it thats the Problem, with the many.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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This is nonsense,the skill levels droped cause people started to get lazy or the trainers got lazy and people dont go in boxing so much cause in other sports you can make better money without getting hit in the head.It aint certainly the fault of s&c coaches.
And i suggest you stop with all the sarcastic bullshit as well.If you dont understand it dont mock it.
You say your not against s&c coaches,but in every one of your posts you seem like you hate them and find them uneccesary.
They are for the most part useless any good trainer knows how to get their guys ready for a fight, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12rds. When you see all these 6 packs and fighters striking bodybuilder poses that is the S&C guys contribution. Lazy coaches, people are lazy jeez. There are good boxing coaches who feel the same way about S&C guys, and of course these coaches are as dumb as can be. Do yourself a favor, read interviews watch training videos, educate yourself two of the best trainers out there now, Freddie Roach and Virgil Hunter, are not exactly in love with S&C guys. I dont hate S&C guys I dont like their know it all attitude. There is a place for S&C they should be like children seen but not heard.
I hate to tell you that I have real world experience, which I do, I dont come on here to brag I come on here to maybe educate myself as to training.
If you look at my previous posts I only fire back with sarcasem when I am fired on. You are right no need for that, and I apologize you have your opinion and I have mine.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:57 AM   #28
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Yeah you're a dumb cunt, I don't care what you say.
LMAO, I guess you would know, LOL
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Yes but a human body/muscle tendon unit isn't some basic 1+1 shit, there's optimal oscillation, hysteresis of tendons, stiffness/compliance of the SEC, muscle pennation, relative muscle insertion, relative lever length, fibre composition, fibre length, neural inhibitory mechanisms, neural learning for optimal damping of vibrations etc. Anybody who claims that they know what's what is full of shit, nobody knows all the factors behind plyometric trainings effectiveness for example. There is more and more research being done and while we still don't know much for sure we have a far better idea than anyone did even 10 years ago. Most S+C coaches are useless but they still are nowhere near as useless as the average boxing trainer is when it comes to understanding the human body.
Mumble jumbo, I rest my case. Believe me all S&C will whip these terms on you quicker than anything. What is it that they cannot understand? S&C, is just one component of training. Let them train a guy and shut up, trying to impress everything with their big words. Training fighters is not that complicated, a good boxing coach(Roach, Hunter, or many other top level trainers) dont need to know "optimal oscillation, hysteresis of tendons, stiffness/compliance of the SEC, muscle pennation, relative muscle insertion, relative lever length, fibre composition, fibre length, neural inhibitory mechanisms, neural learning for optimal damping of vibrations etc."
Dont harp on how much smarter cos you know these things and a lowly boxing trainer doesnt get it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

[quote=scrap;14187087]
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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
Yes but a human body/muscle tendon unit isn't some basic 1+1 shit, there's optimal oscillation, hysteresis of tendons, stiffness/compliance of the SEC, muscle pennation, relative muscle insertion, relative lever length, fibre composition, fibre length, neural inhibitory mechanisms, neural learning for optimal damping of vibrations etc. Anybody who claims that they know what's what is full of shit, nobody knows all the factors behind plyometric trainings effectiveness for example. There is more and more research being done and while we still don't know much for sure we have a far better idea than anyone did even 10 years ago. Most S+C coaches are useless but they still are nowhere near as useless as the average boxing trainer is when it comes to understanding the human body.[/ Now that makes sense, Fair points. Its applying it thats the Problem, with the many.
Finally a voice of reason
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