Referee - Tony Perez 'I Should Have DQ'd Muhammad Ali'

[Senor Pepe']

If Tony Perez had deducted 1-point from Mr. Ali, or taken away a round from him,
I don't think the complaints would have been so bad for his bad referee performance.

But, when you do nothing,,,,,,,,,it looks like you're in the tank.

[HOUDINI]

This entire thread is a load of crap. Countless fights have been won via holding a puncher in close and peppering that same fighter from long range. Ali all through that fight hit Frazier coming in at long and mid distance with hundreds of shots. In close he would hold and spin his man. You see these tactics from Dempsey Tunney to Tyson Douglas.

[BillB]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

If Tony Perez had deducted 1-point from Mr. Ali, or taken away a round from him,
I don't think the complaints would have been so bad for his bad referee performance.

But, when you do nothing,,,,,,,,,it looks like you're in the tank.

I'm sure he was in the tank.

I think many of Ali's fights were tanked.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by BillB

I'm sure he was in the tank.

I think many of Ali's fights were tanked.

Name the particular fights you're thinking of,Bill.

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Frazier was lucky Ali spent so much time holding, if he had hit him more Joe would have been blind after the halfway mark.

How kind of Ali to risk such a big fight on the basis of poor Joe's health!

[The Kurgan]

Can Ali fans at least acknowledge that holding behind the back of the neck is against the rules? And that it is usually more severely regarded than holding generally?

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by mcvey

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First I heard Kinshasa was in NYState
Ali's next 8 fights ,after Frazier 2 were outside NY

Then they had reason to be worried, didn't they?

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

How kind of Ali to risk such a big fight on the basis of poor Joe's health!

Yes he is a gent .
ps. Ali had bad hands for that fight.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

Then they had reason to be worried, didn't they?

My point is, Pepe said they were after safeguarding Ali's defending in NY. He didn't and as to Perez being biased towards Ali, he gave Frazier more rounds than either of the two judges.
Pepe is on an agenda driven wind up he makes mythical interviews and statements up as he goes along, amazingly he has attracted adherents that agree with his tales.

You can fool some of the people all of the time it seems.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

Can Ali fans at least acknowledge that holding behind the back of the neck is against the rules? And that it is usually more severely regarded than holding generally?

Take a look at Wlad v Wach the other night and take into account that Wach is taller than Wlad, then factor in that Frazier was over three inches shorter than Ali , even when standing erect ,and he fought out of a half crouch.

Hitting below the belt is illegal too, take a look at Frazier's punches in FOTC,Ali had contusions on his thighs after that fight.
Ever hear a sqawk from him about that?

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Yes he is a gent .
ps. Ali had bad hands for that fight.

And Frazier had a bad eye. And Ali was about 32. And Frazier was never the same after the FOTC and the Sunshine Showdown. Etc. etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by mcvey

My point is, Pepe said they were after safeguarding Ali's defending in NY. He didn't and as to Perez being biased towards Ali, he gave Frazier more rounds than either of the two judges.
Pepe is on an agenda driven wind up he makes mythical interviews and statements up as he goes along, amazingly he has attracted adherents that agree with his tales.

You can fool some of the people all of the time it seems.

The point is that you can't rule out that NYSAC was keen to keep Ali sweet, DESPITE the fact that he didn't fight in NY for some time after that fight. Ali was treated soft because he was a cash-cow; call it karma after 1967-1970 if you like, but a fact's a fact.

Originally Posted by mcvey

Take a look at Wlad v Wach the other night and take into account that Wach is taller than Wlad, then factor in that Frazier was over three inches shorter than Ali , even when standing erect ,and he fought out of a half crouch.

If it's harder to hold without breaking the rules against a shorter boxer, then so much the worse for being tall. Lots of boxers have faced the same difficulties Ali faced against Frazier, but most of them weren't allowed to frequently break the rules.

Originally Posted by mcvey

Hitting below the belt is illegal too, take a look at Frazier's punches in FOTC,Ali had contusions on his thighs after that fight.
Ever hear a sqawk from him about that?

I'd be interested to see a comparison between the number of low-blows by Frazier in the FOTC and the number of holds behind the head by Ali in their second fight. However, even if they are comparable or even if Frazier low-blowed more often, it doesn't exonerate Ali.

The FOTC is notable, by the way, for being a fight where a ref didn't allow Ali to frequently hold behind the head, presumably because of the unique focus on the fight and the fact that Mercante was forced to say "There will no holding behind the head" to the whole crowd beforehand. Ali held in the FOTC, but not illegally or excessively, since it's harder to hold if you can't just grab someone's neck and pull down on it.

IIRC, Ali didn't hold excessively or illegally in the Thrilla either.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by The Kurgan

And Frazier had a bad eye. And Ali was about 32. And Frazier was never the same after the FOTC and the Sunshine Showdown. Etc. etc. etc. etc.



The point is that you can't rule out that NYSAC was keen to keep Ali sweet, DESPITE the fact that he didn't fight in NY for some time after that fight. Ali was treated soft because he was a cash-cow; call it karma after 1967-1970 if you like, but a fact's a fact.



If it's harder to hold without breaking the rules against a shorter boxer, then so much the worse for being tall. Lots of boxers have faced the same difficulties Ali faced against Frazier, but most of them weren't allowed to frequently break the rules.



I'd be interested to see a comparison between the number of low-blows by Frazier in the FOTC and the number of holds behind the head by Ali in their second fight. However, even if they are comparable or even if Frazier low-blowed more often, it doesn't exonerate Ali.

The FOTC is notable, by the way, for being a fight where a ref didn't allow Ali to frequently hold behind the head, presumably because of the unique focus on the fight and the fact that Mercante was forced to say "There will no holding behind the head" to the whole crowd beforehand. Ali held in the FOTC, but not illegally or excessively, since it's harder to hold if you can't just grab someone's neck and pull down on it.

IIRC, Ali didn't hold excessively or illegally in the Thrilla either.

This is palpable nonsense because Ali did not fight in NY for over 2 and a half years ,and he only fought in NY twice more for the rest of his career. Some "cash cow"

[Senor Pepe']

Originally Posted by mcvey

This is palpable nonsense because Ali did not fight in NY for over 2 and a half years ,and he only fought in NY twice more for the rest of his career. Some "cash cow"

Just because Muhammad Ali didn't fight in New York immediately after the Frazier vs. Ali II bout means nothing.

Teddy Brenner was 'attempting' to negotiate with the Ali Team for other
1974 bouts, and future bouts.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Just because Muhammad Ali didn't fight in New York immediately after the Frazier vs. Ali II bout means nothing.

Teddy Brenner was 'attempting' to negotiate with the Ali Team for other
1974 bouts, and future bouts.

Pepe save it for those who like fairy tales , I'm not one of them.

Brenner was the matchmaker and President of MSG. Ali only fought in MSG ONCE after the Frazier 2 fight and that was nearly 4 and a half years later.
His only other NY fight was in Yankee Stadium
Keep the bullshit and hate for those that swallow it.

[Senor Pepe']

Originally Posted by mcvey

Pepe save it for those who like fairy tales , I'm not one of them.

Brenner was the matchmaker and President of MSG. Ali only fought in MSG ONCE after the Frazier 2 fight and that was nearly 4 and a half years later.
His only other NY fight was in Yankee Stadium
Keep the bullshit and hate for those that swallow it.

McVey,

I heard Muhammad Ali is looking for a new 'houseboy'. You are definitely
qualified as The Greatest 'brown noser'.

By the way, who do you think was the co-promoter of the Yankeee Stadium bout,,,,,,,

You guessed it,,,,,,,,, Madison Square Garden.

Madison Square Garden was attempting to line up Muhammad Ali versus
Ken Norton (if Ken Norton defeated George Foreman in March 1974).

They were 'hedging' their bet..........Look it up......