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Old 11-12-2012, 05:32 AM   #46
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

Nobodys making any excuse I thought I stated that clearly ,"No excuses,more credit too floyd".At the end of the day he fought a 35 yr Oscar & 38 yr mosely not prime ones.Say what you will I've studied floyd among many others much longer than you have so I know what floyd is capable of & what he's not(That's not fighting dangerous opposition consistently).Floyd goes for big money fights not the best fight that could be possibly made hence Pac/Sergio.He'd go after a over hyped canela or immature kid ortiz.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #47
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Oscar threw more jabs in the second half of the fight than the first half. I don't know how or why people hang on to this myth. Just like folks say that Mosley gassed when he threw more punches in the second half as well. Mayweather made them miss. He made them look foolish and look like they stopped throwing because they failed to connect.

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Good point.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:25 PM   #48
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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forrest, winky, shane, pwill??
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Cory Spinks
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Vernon Forrest
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Originally Posted by MarcDSparC View Post
is there anyone really in history where an atg fought a guy from 2 divisions lower like he did against marquez?
Leonard fought Duran
Hopkins fought Kelly Pavlik
Hagler fought Leonard
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

great talent. with a good resume.

Resume not even close to living up to his talent. Never had to fight a prime HOF'er his whole career. Which is impressive when you think he been around for 14 years.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:29 PM   #50
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

De La Hoya's rating actually rose after the fight on account of his effort. The Annuals are year-end ratings. The 2007 would've been released in early '08, 2006 in early '07, so on.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:37 PM   #51
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Originally Posted by bballchump11
Leonard fought Duran
Hopkins fought Kelly Pavlik
Hagler fought Leonard
C'mon now bball, Duran had been at 147 for over a year and taken out two top ten fighters in the division, one or them a HOFer in Carlos Palomino after a split-decision loss to Wilfred Benitez in Puerto Rico. He had been the Lineal Champ from 1976-79. Duran was the #2 Welterweight at the time Leonard fought him.

Hagler-Leonard? That's legit. Ray had one fight in the previous five years going into it and never before at 160. What a victory!

Painfully obvious one: Carlos Monzon-Jose Napoles. Check that out.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #52
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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I'd say so, definitely. He's also a guy who would benefit immensely by today's rehydration periods after the weigh-in. Probably be heavily avoided too, unfortunately. I actually rate the Kalule win - also taking into account he was 36-0 and the Lineal 154 Champ - over Duran II considering Roberto's condition. I don't excuse him for it or anything, I just thought Leonard's performance a lot more impressive against Ayub. Tough fight, too.

Ray also took out Mayweather, Sr (#6 WW), Shields (#4 WW), Gant (#4 WW), Ranzany (#5 WW), Price (#8 WW) and Chiaverini (#4 JMW; fight at 154) before he even got to Benitez for the title. No doubt in my mind he's #2 at the weight.

How many 'champions' today don't even fight top ten opp in their division? Leonard split right through it, pre-title. And it was the legit title, against another undefeated, great fighter in Benitez.
Plus Leonard retired Armondo Muniz (who, though past his best, was still good enough to rematch Palomino for the title in his previous fight), and defeated a pair of tough journeyman middleweights (Geraldo and Marcotte) while fighting just above WW . Hell, in his second pro fight he beat Willie "Fireball" Rodriguez- who would go on to become a Top 10 contender at 140lbs. In retrospect, the guy was hardly coddled at any point in his career.

As for Mayweather, good list, Iron. Shows how consistent the guy has been throughout the last decade and a half.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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C'mon now bball, Duran had been at 147 for over a year and taken out two top ten fighters in the division, one or them a HOFer in Carlos Palomino after a split-decision loss to Wilfred Benitez in Puerto Rico. He had been the Lineal Champ from 1976-79. Duran was the #2 Welterweight at the time Leonard fought him.

Hagler-Leonard? That's legit. Ray had one fight in the previous five years going into it and never before at 160. What a victory!

Painfully obvious one: Carlos Monzon-Jose Napoles. Check that out.
Sometimes fighters have struggled with fighters who have come up two weight divisions to face them.,,

e.g.

Barney Ross fought Henry Armstrong.
Micheal Nunn fought Marlon Starling.

Just saying.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:54 PM   #54
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
C'mon now bball, Duran had been at 147 for over a year and taken out two top ten fighters in the division, one or them a HOFer in Carlos Palomino after a split-decision loss to Wilfred Benitez in Puerto Rico. He had been the Lineal Champ from 1976-79. Duran was the #2 Welterweight at the time Leonard fought him.

Hagler-Leonard? That's legit. Ray had one fight in the previous five years going into it and never before at 160. What a victory!

Painfully obvious one: Carlos Monzon-Jose Napoles. Check that out.
just fighting fire with fire

but the other 2 examples I gave were better. Monzon-Naples is pretty bad as well. Good one
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:09 PM   #55
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Plus Leonard retired Armondo Muniz (who, though past his best, was still good enough to rematch Palomino for the title in his previous fight), and defeated a pair of tough journeyman middleweights (Geraldo and Marcotte) while fighting just above WW . Hell, in his second pro fight he beat Willie "Fireball" Rodriguez- who would go on to become a Top 10 contender at 140lbs. In retrospect, the guy was hardly coddled at any point in his career.

As for Mayweather, good list, Iron. Shows how consistent the guy has been throughout the last decade and a half.
Yup, Muniz is another one who was still in the top ten almost right up to the fight with Leonard. Somebody mentioned to me that the Register has him listed at the time of the fight. I feel I've got a legit source considering I've seen scans of an immense collection of RING mags, and you really couldn't make this stuff up. But it's subject to human error.

It's completely unreasonable and absurd to suggest Ray Leonard has a "thin resume". It's only top heavy because his biggest wins match any fighter in the sport.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
Sometimes fighters have struggled with fighters who have come up two weight divisions to face them.,,

e.g.

Barney Ross fought Henry Armstrong.
Micheal Nunn fought Marlon Starling.

Just saying.
Could never forget Armstrong over Ross! One of the best wins ever IMO.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #56
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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ok i checked wiki, it says duran was the no.1 ww contender?
how can he become no.1 contender if he was campaigning 2 divisions lower at the time he fought leonard?

marquez was lightweight (2 fights) when he fought floyd at ww.
Duran had been at WW for atleast a year by the time he fought Leonard. Him moving directly up from LW to fight Ray is a myth.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #57
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Top 10 Rated Opponents/Champions

1998: Genaro Hernandez (World SFW Champion)
1998: Angel Manfredy (No. 2 SFW)
2000: Goyo Vargas (No. 10 SFW)
2001: Diego Corrales (No. 1 SFW)
2001: Jesus Chavez (No. 4 SFW)
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (No. 1 LW, WBC claimant) [New lineage]
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (No. 1 LW)
2003: Philip N'Dou (No. 4 SFW) (@135)
2004: DeMarcus Corley (No. 5 LWW)
2005: Arturo Gatti (No. 1 LWW, WBC claimant)
2006: Zab Judah (No. 3 WW)
2006: Carlos Baldomir (World WW Champion)
2007: Oscar De La Hoya (No. 5 LMW, WBC claimant)
2007: Ricky Hatton (World LWW Champion) (@147)
2009: Juan M. Marquez (World LW Champion) (@147)
2010: Shane Molsey (No. 2 WW, WBA claimant)
2011: Victor Ortiz (No. 2 WW, WBC claimant)
2012: Miguel Cotto (No. 1 LMW, WBA claimant)

Overall record: 43-0
Record vs. Top 10 Opponents/Champions: 18-0


Do you want to blow him?
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #58
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Duran had been at WW for atleast a year by the time he fought Leonard. Him moving directly up from LW to fight Ray is a myth.
Duran turned heads with this performance:

The skill, the feints, the infighting, the defense..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-cS0FDWO0&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-cS0FDWO0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnSKJwGmjvI&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnSKJwGmjvI&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #59
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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gassing doesnt necessarily mean you stop throwing punches or have lesser punch output than earlier rounds.

gassing could also mean you start telegraphing your punches because of fatigue or being tired, and have less sting on the punches which makes it easier to dodge.

of course if you are gassed, you can hardly throw power punches as there no power behind them.

you are more reliant on jabs because thats the only punch you can effectively throw, which skews the numbers.

even then they are thrown almost exclusively for activities and defense rather than to setup your power punches.

now in the case of mosley and de la hoya, i have a good reason to believe theyre gassed.

dela hoya:
1. old
2. part time boxer (which tells you also pac's conditioning at this point except he fights 2x a year).
mosley:
1. old
2. big gap in his previous fight with no tune up)
3. no steroids

now contrast this to the cotto fight.

floyd didnt really solve cotto's jab, a guy 20x slower than pac.

have you seen floyd's pull counter on cotto? hardly seen any if there was one.

is this because cotto did not gas?

i like to think it was floyd who took lengthy breather on latter rounds and came up strong in round 12.
So the pull counter is the litmus test for all of Floyd's fights? You say that DLH and Mosley were old. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However you are not giving Floyd credit for what he did in both those fights. Hate him or love him the man is a phenomenal fighter and when haters discount his accomplishments in the ring, I don't understand it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:44 PM   #60
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather vs Top 10 Contenders/Champions

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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
Duran turned heads with this performance:

The skill, the feints, the infighting, the defense..

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Stop trying to sell him to me dammit

I read the discussion about him vs Oscar at 140, and I think it'd be a little closer than you guys made out.
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