Fat Dan: Wlad "one of the greatest heavyweight champions in history"

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by krazylegs

Which is why majority of the people don't take that away from Louis and Holmes, and the reason they are considered ATG and top 10.

Wlad is and has been rated in most credible top 10 P4P lists for a while, competing against every fighter in every division to make those list. And he's there with many great and some ATG fighters, while other miss the list. That says more about him then his opposition. Especially when you take into account it very hard for heavyweights to make those lists, he last 2 being Lewis and Holyfield ATGs.

Now I generally dislike those list, and myself put little stock in them, since it's a little bit or a ridiculous assumption. I also dislike fantasy match ups against past greats, because Nostalgia can be very difficult thing to overcome, and in reality is just one persons perceptive vs another. So i try to look at it this way, could fighter A, give Fighter B a competitive fight, that either could win, taking into account every attribute possible. And if you can say yes, that's a very good complement.

You make good points and I respect your opinion. Contrary to popular belief I like Wlad (though I'm not fond of his style) and rank him 16th all-time. I think he'll move up to at least 12 by the end of his career and possibly into the top 10.

[vargasfan1985]

Originally Posted by derrick

Who cares what that lard ass says. Wlad in not a top 10 ATG. He hid behind his brother his entire career. Vitali is a top 10 but WLad is not. Vitali would kick Wlads ass and Wlad has said this himself.

VITALI AIN'T SHIT. Top 10 for Vitali? GTFO

Wlad, when all is said an done, will be in the top 10 somewhere. Probably the bottom.

[JAB5239]

Prime to me is a fighter who is totally developed physically and who has already been successful at the upper echelon. Peak is when a fighter has reached his highest mark successfully and maintains it until he shows decline. I have no doubt Wlad was prime during his losses.

[krazylegs]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

You make good points and I respect your opinion. Contrary to popular belief I like Wlad (though I'm not fond of his style) and rank him 16th all-time. I think he'll move up to at least 12 by the end of his career and possibly into the top 10.

And I yours.

As quoted from wikipedia's encyclopedia

In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. It can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments.In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

Collective or professional opinions are defined as meeting a higher standard to substantiate the opinion.

So in general their like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink. No im just kidding, but with the above being said. All Wlad can do is to continue on building the only thing that is real, and factual. And that's continuing to build upon his title defenses and longevity of his reign.

[bretchko]

Originally Posted by Dan-Vano

Louis
Ali
Jack Johnson
Lennox Lewis
Holmes
Foreman
Marciano
Fraizer
Holyfield
Tyson

All those achieved more in my opinion. Liston, Jersey Joe, and Ezzard Charles would also be ahead of him on my list. Still a phenominal fighter, and ranks very highly even tho his career isn't over

27 posts go home boy

[vargasfan1985]

Originally Posted by bretchko

27 posts go home boy

So post count equals intelligence? STFU.

[bremen]

Dan tells it like it is.

[PetethePrince]

Let's be honest. The era is a weak one, and it's handy to have your brother take out the higher risk fights on a stylistic standpoint. Hell, it's nice to have an other half cleaning out half the other fighters, though Wlad clearly fights the better ranked fighters (Though the ones definitely more suited toward him).

Let's be even more honest. We can argue all day about the era but Wlad has dominated and done pretty much what he can. While he has dominated extensively, his losses sting quite a bit. This puts him in automatic top 15 qualification, and maybe even top 10. But to even suggest he's one of the greatest is blasphemy. Yes, even great HWs lose. Louis in his prime at least lost to a HOF and terrific fighter in Schemling. Ali had Frazier and Norton. Holmes had Spinks at 36. Hell, even Tokyo Buster Douglas is superior to Purrity, Brewster, and Sanders. I'm just being honest I find Douglas' performance to be incredibly underrated. He was a fighter that was incredibly fluid and skilled for a big HW with great gifts.

And yes, it hurts Lewis that he lost to Rahman and McCall so devastatingly in practically one game-changing shot too. However, Lewis fought in a better era with better competition. And Lewis beat every man he faced. Can't say the same for Wlad.

[MAG1965]

I still cannot say he is one of the best ever. The way he holds his left hand out and just paws with it. If he had a guy like Larry Holmes who was 240 pounds or Lennox Lewis still fighting, he would be countered. His jab is nice but they had even better jabs.

[TerryESB]

What makes Dan an expert again

He has no credentials

[Dan-Vano]

Originally Posted by PowerHoock

yes
no
hell no!

Every person you put no to has a better single win than Wlad, have more depth, and ultimately achieved more in the sport

[Cael]

Originally Posted by Dan-Vano

Every person you put no to has a better single win than Wlad, have more depth, and ultimately achieved more in the sport

Jack Johnson??

I bet you dont even know who he fought and defended his title against, you think youre cool if you're quoting the old farts in the classic forum?

INfact anyone who claims that Jack johnson achieved more the Klitschko and still keep a straight face afterwards deserves to get their ass kicked.

All one has to do is check out his title defenses,the fighters he ducked in his reign, and how old where those best names on his resume by the time he beat them.

...................................................................................................


The truth is few ppl. on that list have more impressive title reigns and achieved more then WK, and certainly Jack ****ing Johnson aint one of them .

The thing is all of them are considered legends and true pioneers of the sport and left behind some sort of a legacy even thought some of them had very unimpressive title runs...that's what lift them up and makes ppl, especially old timers look at them with rose tinted glasses.

But please, dont ****ing bullshit us that Tyson ,fricking Johnson and even Marciano achieved more or have more dept in their resume then Wladimir Klitschko, they may have that stigma and aura going for them, but that does not magically give them better resumes or title reigns.

[loughlan]

Wlad isn't even in the top 50!!!

How can this fraud even be considerd "great"? The division is the worst it's EVER been, he has fought NO elite fighters, he is SOOOOO boring with his jab, jab, grab style . He only wins fights because he has such an unfair size advantage over his club fighter level opponents, he is the chinniest fighter in the history of combat sports, even that feather -fisted part time golfer was able to knock him out ffs!!
Let's face it, Wlad is just a Bute waiting to be Froched and I'm pretty sure he's on PEDs too



But really, I agree with Dan, he's one of the best for sure.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Asterion

I rank Wlad in the lower part of my Top10. I think he's done more than guys like Johnson, and arguably Tyson.

However, Holmes is clearly above Wlad. He has more defenses, he was undefeated for more time and didn't have embarrasing loses early in his career. Yes, Holmes ranks higher.

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Marciano
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. W. Klitschko
9. Liston
10. Tyson

Wlad will soon be 37, btw.

I do think Marciano is ranked too high, he is undefeated and has the best KO ratio but that's really it.

[MAJR]

The problem in placing Wlad or Vitali in the top ten heavyweights of all time is the fact that they studiously avoided fighting their most dangerous potential opponent for the entire time the Klitschko's have been the dominant force in heavyweight boxing - that is to say, each other.

The dominance of the Klitschko's has been such that it has made thier era of heavyweight boxing appear weak in comparison and has given rise to the feeling that there are no potential challengers that are on their level.

In past era's the top active boxers in the heavyweight division fought each other - Patterson/Liston, Liston/Ali, Foreman/Fraizer, Ali/Fraizer, Ali/Foreman, Holmes/Witherspoon, Holmes/Spinks, Tyson/Spinks, Holyfield/Bowe, Tyson/Holyfield, Lewis/Holyfield, etc, etc - but in this one they dont because their brothers.

The career defining fight that would put one of the brothers in amungst the best of all time will never happen because they wont fight each other, so, to this date, the only career defining fight either brother has had is Vitali's valiant loosing effort against Lewis

In my opinion you cannot be in the top ten of all time if you dont fight the best opposition available to you, or, rather, if you make a point of openly avoiding a fight with the best potential opponent available to you.

So while I'm all for the idea of Wlad being the best now, and for him being in the top 20 or so all time greats, I cannot place him or Vitali in with the best of the best.