Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing history - Page 6

Hands of Iron · 11-12-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Not good enough by stoneys system which is my point.

Yeah well, Stoney is one of my favorite boxing writers but he can be pretty militant. Robinson was recognized as Champ by the primary, legitimate ranking body as well. Even represented it well with defenses against Doyle (#6), Docusen (#1), Gavilan (#1), Fusari (#5).

Bummy Davis · 11-12-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

The K Bros are the dominant heavyweight champions of this era.

Wladimir is the king of the heavyweight division, and he has been since he beat THE hot prospect(Sam Peter) and the #1 heavyweight(Chris Byrd) consecutively.

His competition isn't amazing, but the 7+ years he's going to have with the title will put him up there on any ATG list. Not getting beat, night to night to night, is the HARDEST thing in this sport, frankly, consistency deserves more credit then it gets.

He's gone longer then Mike Tyson before running into a Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis before running into a Hasim Rahman. That should be applauded/

very true

Unforgiven · 11-13-2012, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

I would probably agree, though we'd have to take great care unilaterally overruling the recognized rankings body. Ultimately, Holmes is to blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Whoever emerges as the dominant premiere fighter becomes the world champion? On the contrary, whoever emerges as the dominant premiers fighter remains only that until and unless he defeats his nearest rival as recognized by the authoritative rankings body.

I have no problem disregarding (I wouldn't say 'overruling' ) the Ring rankings, just as you don't have a problem disregarding their edicts on appointing new champions.
I find it a little contradictory that you'd call them the "recognized" and "authoritative rankings body" yet you won't recognize the name they put as the top under the heading "CHAMPION : ".

But I guess we all have our different take.

Quote:

The premiere fighter in the division isn't always the champion. They are different concepts.

I agree. But in the years after a champion retires, a new fighter can - and often does - emerge as the new champion by establishing himself as the premier fighter and consistently defending that claim.

mcvey · 11-13-2012, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

The K Bros are the dominant heavyweight champions of this era.

Wladimir is the king of the heavyweight division, and he has been since he beat THE hot prospect(Sam Peter) and the #1 heavyweight(Chris Byrd) consecutively.

His competition isn't amazing, but the 7+ years he's going to have with the title will put him up there on any ATG list. Not getting beat, night to night to night, is the HARDEST thing in this sport, frankly, consistency deserves more credit then it gets.

He's gone longer then Mike Tyson before running into a Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis before running into a Hasim Rahman. That should be applauded/

Lamar Clark was pretty consistant 42 straight wins,all by ko.
Its about whom you are beating imo.
ps The Douglas who beat Tyson beats both the Klits ,imo.

Unforgiven · 11-13-2012, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcvey

Lamar Clark was pretty consistant 42 straight wins,all by ko.
Its about whom you are beating imo.

I agree.

But at one point in his prime, Joe Louis, perhaps the greatest fighter ever at any weight, imo, had the following 14-fight streak :

John Henry Lewis
Jack Roper
Tony Galento
Bob Pastor
Arturo Godoy
Johnny paycheck
Arturo Godoy
Al Mccoy
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Abe Simon
Tony Musto
Buddy Baer
Billy Conn

Compare to Wladimir Klitschko's last 14 fights :

Chris Byrd
Calvin Brock
Ray Austin
Lamon Brewster
Sultan Ibragimov
Tony Thompson
Hasim Rahman
Ruslan Chagaev
Eddie Chambers
Sam Peter
David Haye
Jean-Marc Mormeck
Tony Thompson
Mariusz Wach

Neither list is of an outstanding crop of world-beaters, but they are not 'tomato cans' or 'bums' either.

mcvey · 11-13-2012, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I agree.

But at one point in his prime, Joe Louis, perhaps the greatest fighter ever at any weight, imo, had the following 14-fight streak :

John Henry Lewis
Jack Roper
Tony Galento
Bob Pastor
Arturo Godoy
Johnny paycheck
Arturo Godoy
Al Mccoy
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Abe Simon
Tony Musto
Buddy Baer
Billy Conn

Compare to Wladimir Klitschko's last 14 fights :

Chris Byrd
Calvin Brock
Ray Austin
Lamon Brewster
Sultan Ibragimov
Tony Thompson
Hasim Rahman
Ruslan Chagaev
Eddie Chambers
Sam Peter
David Haye
Jean-Marc Mormeck
Tony Thompson
Mariusz Wach

Neither list is of an outstanding crop of world-beaters, but they are not 'tomato cans' or 'bums' either.

Rahman was 38 ,Thompson, 40 Mormeck 40.
Louis had also beaten the previous 5 champions and only lost one fight , to a former Champ.Wlad had been kod by two journeyman, and a part time boxer.

bodhi · 11-13-2012, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I agree.

But at one point in his prime, Joe Louis, perhaps the greatest fighter ever at any weight, imo, had the following 14-fight streak :

John Henry Lewis
Jack Roper
Tony Galento
Bob Pastor
Arturo Godoy
Johnny paycheck
Arturo Godoy
Al Mccoy
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Abe Simon
Tony Musto
Buddy Baer
Billy Conn

Compare to Wladimir Klitschko's last 14 fights :

Chris Byrd
Calvin Brock
Ray Austin
Lamon Brewster
Sultan Ibragimov
Tony Thompson
Hasim Rahman
Ruslan Chagaev
Eddie Chambers
Sam Peter
David Haye
Jean-Marc Mormeck
Tony Thompson
Mariusz Wach

Neither list is of an outstanding crop of world-beaters, but they are not 'tomato cans' or 'bums' either.

Difference is, Louis was THE champ for 14 of those fights. Wlad for 6

I´m a big fan of Wlad btw. but this is just not true here. Wlad may hold this record for beltholders but not for champs.

Unforgiven · 11-13-2012, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcvey

Rahman was 38 ,Thompson, 40 Mormeck 40.
Louis had also beaten the previous 5 champions and only lost one fight , to a former Champ.

The point is, Joe Louis's consistency, even against the lesser challengers, is PART OF what makes him an elite ATG.
As magna rightly said, consistency needs to be credited.

Quote:

Wlad had been kod by two journeyman, and a part time boxer.

... and the fact that he hasn't been beaten in almost 9 YEARS doesn't seem to have made any impression with you.

Unforgiven · 11-13-2012, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhi

Difference is, Louis was THE champ for 14 of those fights. Wlad for 6

I´m a big fan of Wlad btw. but this is just not true here. Wlad may hold this record for beltholders but not for champs.

Wlad may not have been THE champ when he beat Byrd in 2006 but he was hitting his prime and was taking on the mantle of proving himself the world's best fighter.
I don't think he's done too badly with his 14-fight streak.

mcvey · 11-13-2012, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

The point is, Joe Louis's consistency, even against the lesser challengers, is PART OF what makes him an elite ATG.
As magna rightly said, consistency needs to be credited.

... and the fact that he hasn't been beaten in almost 9 YEARS doesn't seem to have made any impression with you.

If he was defending against rated challengers, that would make more of an impression

bodhi · 11-13-2012, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Wlad may not have been THE champ when he beat Byrd in 2006 but he was hitting his prime and was taking on the mantle of proving himself the world's best fighter.
I don't think he's done too badly with his 14-fight streak.

Nah, he doesn´t and IMO he already is Top15, probably borderline Top10. IMO his career is already quite a bit more impressive than Frazier´s or Dempsey´s. But he isn´t even close in defences or reign to Louis.

McGrain · 11-13-2012, 05:28 AM

He's top 10 class for me. If he retires without another KO loss he's a lock. If he gets sparked again, it depends on when and how and by whom. He's not going to lose on points if he boxed to be 44 I don't think.

Unforgiven · 11-13-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcvey

If he was defending against rated challengers, that would make more of an impression

Most of them would have made my top 10 at the time he fought them.
Mormeck, Rahman, Wach wouldn't have.
Byrd would probably have been in the top 3.
Chambers, Haye, Chagaev, Ibragimov were around the top 5. Some insist that Haye was clearly #2 contender behind Vitali.
Peter and Brock were solid enough. Austin might have snuck into the top 10.

Regardless, even if the average world rating of a string of fourteen opponents would come in at, say, 8th or 9th heavyweight in the world, to go 14-0 without a hiccup or a close fight is damned impressive.
It's no easy feat.

lufcrazy · 11-13-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Yeah well, Stoney is one of my favorite boxing writers but he can be pretty militant. Robinson was recognized as Champ by the primary, legitimate ranking body as well. Even represented it well with defenses against Doyle (#6), Docusen (#1), Gavilan (#1), Fusari (#5).

Stoney is a stonewall legend. His system is militant, rigid and exactly what boxing needs. It is only missing the prestige and universal acclaim required for such a system.

It's definitely the way forward, it's just not the way it is.

NoNeck · 11-13-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcvey

Rahman was 38 ,Thompson, 40 Mormeck 40.
Louis had also beaten the previous 5 champions and only lost one fight , to a former Champ.Wlad had been kod by two journeyman, and a part time boxer.

This "part-time boxer" shit is so stupid. Sanders was a beast who could take out a lot of guys early.

Brewster wasn't a journeyman if he defended his belt a few times.

Thompson was prime for the first fight.

11-13-2012, 05:28 AM	#87
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,255 vCash: 1000	Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi He's top 10 class for me. If he retires without another KO loss he's a lock. If he gets sparked again, it depends on when and how and by whom. He's not going to lose on points if he boxed to be 44 I don't think.
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