Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2012, 04:10 PM   #46
BobDigi5060
East Side MMA
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 5,458
vCash: 553
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Oh yeah, they gotta work. But at least a dud fight is over in 15 minutes. People act like there's no such thing as two timid, gassed boxers, neither of whom have the power to stop each other, clinching and feinting and playing peek-a-boo and landing two good punches each from round 4 to round 10.

I saw Wlad fight, turned it off and went to the gym after the 8th round..... Here in 'Murica we won't get up for any Boxer besides Pacman or Mayweather. We have a lot of Hispanics, but The UFC is still favored.

As for OP, a few things.. Two men in full guard separates the casual cans from the core', and Striking is more appealing than Grappling.
BobDigi5060 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #47
UnleashtheFURY
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,120
vCash: 574
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

I'm a fan of combat sports. Yeah some UFC fan boys can be ridiculous sometimes, same goes for some boxing fans.
UnleashtheFURY is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #48
Joe.Boxer
Chinchecker
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 240
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyt View Post
MMA takes heart out of fighting, anybody can be MMA fighter.
Boxing you need real mental toughness, MMA not so much.
it bothers me most in MMA.
It's strange how that super-douche hipster tard Rogan goes on about how "mentally tough" wrestlers are .

And "YOU KNOW ROY JONES JR RESPECTS THE HANDS OF FORREST GRIFFIN" will remain the dumbest fight commentary of all time.
Joe.Boxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #49
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe.Boxer View Post
It's strange how that super-douche hipster tard Rogan goes on about how "mentally tough" wrestlers are .

And "YOU KNOW ROY JONES JR RESPECTS THE HANDS OF FORREST GRIFFIN" will remain the dumbest fight commentary of all time.
Wrestling training is probably the most physically exhausting in all of combat sports.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:41 PM   #50
PIRA
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,424
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by concrete sledge View Post
Do you have real evidence that "most UFC fans don't like boxing"?

I enjoy all types of combat sports and I think most UFC fans do as well.

Stupid thread.



Shit topic from a renowned troll as Beouche pointed out. You can tell this was a general or lounge topic and then was dumped in here by the mods.

Few of the good posters come here anymore - forum is riddled with teenage trolls.
PIRA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:47 PM   #51
rusty nails
Tszyu for PM!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: dunno..where am i???
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I'll have a punt.


It's geeky as ****, but in boxing I deal with these points in the fight I call "inflection points." I don't write about it or even post about it because nobody wants to hear about that shit, but in a nutshell I mean points in the fight where very subtle changes which are hard to detect cause much larger shifts in the momentum of the fight. The ability to spot them represent sthe difference between a good boxing analyst (not to mention trailer) and an average one.

As an example...a circling fighter with a moving style is circling to his own right 30% of the time for the first four rounds. His opponent has the kind of jab which is brilliant when he can get it working but can see him out-jabbed by the best jabbers he faces because of certain mental or physical limitations (think Oscar). Our man - doing the circling - is a speedster and was rellying upon that to keep him from the jab, but actually Oscar is landing it a fair bit. After four, his corner advices him to start circling to his right less, say 15% of the time. Now Oscar's jab is landing less and our speedster is making the angles on his own jab. That's an inflection point. Go deeper. The speedster decides that he's not going to circle to his right at all any more because he's having so much success. That's an inflection point because he's showing less variance and Oscar times him over the top with a right that dumps him in a round he was winning at a canter that he's now lost 10-8.

What evaporates an inflection point is "the puncher's chance." A good boxer controls a slugger with a series of well judged inflection points then gets wiped out for KO8. Inflection points are what make boxing deep - what makes it "chess."

In MMA there are many more "puncher's chances". Kicks. Knees. Punches. Take downs. Referee splitting. Submission. Locked guard. Etc. etc. After a take down new types of inflection points can develop BUT they are not reprasentative of an overall pattern because the two begin the following round in a different arena - on their feet.

In this sense, I think boxing can be regarded as literally deeper in terms of complexity (think chaos theory) if not in terms of technique. I believe this is also what MMA fans mean when they describe it as "more exciting". Less subtlty on offence, fewer terminals for evolution of the fight mean it is more likley to end suddenly and very violently.

Although on the flip-side, inflection points can open up the chances to land destructive punches.


or in other words "making adjustments"
take this pretentious garbage back to the general..
rusty nails is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:06 PM   #52
rusty nails
Tszyu for PM!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: dunno..where am i???
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
MMA is garbage. Kids game...

this is chess let the peanut brains enjoy their checkers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERRIGAN View Post
Whilst I quite like MMA, the thing it will never have compared to boxing is the gutsy rounds that one sees in the 9th round of Ward-Gatti, because as soon as someone was hurt like Gatti was, he would get finished and not have the chance to display such courage.

Similarly, you will never see something like the 10th round of Corrales/Castillo play itself out in MMA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyt View Post
MMA takes heart out of fighting, anybody can be MMA fighter.
Boxing you need real mental toughness, MMA not so much.
it bothers me most in MMA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe.Boxer View Post
It's strange how that super-douche hipster tard Rogan goes on about how "mentally tough" wrestlers are .

And "YOU KNOW ROY JONES JR RESPECTS THE HANDS OF FORREST GRIFFIN" will remain the dumbest fight commentary of all time.

the special bus has arrived..
rusty nails is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:51 PM   #53
sugarngold
RIDDUM
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Mutantville, North Carolina
Posts: 9,273
vCash: 157
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleto_Reyes View Post
They want to see more stand up in UFC because wrestling on the ground for a UD is boring. If they want to see more stand up, why don't they turn to boxing?
Eh - I'm not sure I would agree with that. Perhaps the casual fans are the ones that want to see more standups in MMA - but the hardcore fans that understand all phases of the game want to see it all. I think the standup rule has been over utilized of late and fighters can certainly use it to their advantage. As an aside - the UFC literally started as a showcase for Gracie Jiujitsu and has morphed into a sport that seems almost uniquely designed to take away the effectiveness of true jiujitsu.

Not to mention the hardcore MMA fans are also the ones that are already fans of boxing, kickboxing, ADCC, etc. We pretty much watch all combat sports. If not - then right - like you said - people should just watch boxing.
sugarngold is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:24 PM   #54
rusty nails
Tszyu for PM!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: dunno..where am i???
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarngold View Post
Eh - I'm not sure I would agree with that. Perhaps the casual fans are the ones that want to see more standups in MMA - but the hardcore fans that understand all phases of the game want to see it all. I think the standup rule has been over utilized of late and fighters can certainly use it to their advantage. As an aside - the UFC literally started as a showcase for Gracie Jiujitsu and has morphed into a sport that seems almost uniquely designed to take away the effectiveness of true jiujitsu.

Not to mention the hardcore MMA fans are also the ones that are already fans of boxing, kickboxing, ADCC, etc. We pretty much watch all combat sports. If not - then right - like you said - people should just watch boxing.

amen.. the stand up rule has swung completely the other way to the point that if your not dropping bombs then your "wasting time"
its getting to the point where guys are getting stood up in side control after 15 seconds. how are you supposed to educate people??
rusty nails is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:27 AM   #55
Matt Ldn
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NSW via Leeds/London
Posts: 1,941
vCash: 1885
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Also, with boxing you can always break it down to very simple components.

You judge your distance. You select your punch. You throw it. It lands or it doesn't. Rinse. Repeat.

In MMA, there is a longer chain of progression. You get the takedown. Now you start to work, and you have options. You can try to pass guard. You can look to take the back. You can try to get your hooks in. You can try to isolate an arm. Etc etc etc. There's a lot more "5 step processes" (for want of a better expression.)

I still don't know **** all about the subtleties of the ground game, but I have learned to appreciate key moments in the grappling that I didn't recognize when I started. It's fun to appreciate a little bit of the scrambling and the submission battles on the ground, the key moments oftentimes aren't immediately obvious. It's a game of subtlety just the same as boxing is, except there's a wider variety of tools available and there's a higher chance of a sudden equalizer or momentum-shifter.

That is the most ludicrous over simplification. Football is just kicking a ball as far as you want it to go then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Would you (or anyone else) say MMA fights are easier or more difficult to predict accurately than boxing?
I would say much harder due to several factors. The number of weapons, number and length of rounds, biased scoring, lack of fighters (there are fewer fighters who are clearly a cut above the rest), being a young sport etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
amen.. the stand up rule has swung completely the other way to the point that if your not dropping bombs then your "wasting time"
its getting to the point where guys are getting stood up in side control after 15 seconds. how are you supposed to educate people??
I feel there is a massive lack of consistency some refs stand them up after 20seconds of not advancing position but still throwing where others will let them do nothing for a minute+
Matt Ldn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:45 AM   #56
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
or in other words "making adjustments"
take this pretentious garbage back to the general..
Yeah, I think "making adjustments" is how someone who doesn't really have a proper grip of boxing (& English) would see it. In fact it's about making adjustments to the adjustments and how those adjustmens affect the original adjustments and so on - furthermore, not all "adjustments" are inflection points. They are not the same thing. General is not known for it's pretentionsness. Nor do I post there very much. Finally, "inflection points" is actually just as short and easy to type as "making adjustments".

Other than that, good post.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 12:26 PM   #57
MattMattMatt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,712
vCash: 75
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
or in other words "making adjustments"
take this pretentious garbage back to the general..
Not exactly. An inflection implies the point at which a change in momentum occurs (aka the result), with the adjustment being the cause. Not all adjustments will result in a change in momentum, and not all changes in momentum are as a result of an adjustment.
MattMattMatt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:31 PM   #58
lefthook89
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,742
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I'll have a punt.


It's geeky as ****, but in boxing I deal with these points in the fight I call "inflection points." I don't write about it or even post about it because nobody wants to hear about that shit, but in a nutshell I mean points in the fight where very subtle changes which are hard to detect cause much larger shifts in the momentum of the fight. The ability to spot them represent sthe difference between a good boxing analyst (not to mention trailer) and an average one.

As an example...a circling fighter with a moving style is circling to his own right 30% of the time for the first four rounds. His opponent has the kind of jab which is brilliant when he can get it working but can see him out-jabbed by the best jabbers he faces because of certain mental or physical limitations (think Oscar). Our man - doing the circling - is a speedster and was rellying upon that to keep him from the jab, but actually Oscar is landing it a fair bit. After four, his corner advices him to start circling to his right less, say 15% of the time. Now Oscar's jab is landing less and our speedster is making the angles on his own jab. That's an inflection point. Go deeper. The speedster decides that he's not going to circle to his right at all any more because he's having so much success. That's an inflection point because he's showing less variance and Oscar times him over the top with a right that dumps him in a round he was winning at a canter that he's now lost 10-8.

What evaporates an inflection point is "the puncher's chance." A good boxer controls a slugger with a series of well judged inflection points then gets wiped out for KO8. Inflection points are what make boxing deep - what makes it "chess."

In MMA there are many more "puncher's chances". Kicks. Knees. Punches. Take downs. Referee splitting. Submission. Locked guard. Etc. etc. After a take down new types of inflection points can develop BUT they are not reprasentative of an overall pattern because the two begin the following round in a different arena - on their feet.

In this sense, I think boxing can be regarded as literally deeper in terms of complexity (think chaos theory) if not in terms of technique. I believe this is also what MMA fans mean when they describe it as "more exciting". Less subtlty on offence, fewer terminals for evolution of the fight mean it is more likley to end suddenly and very violently.

Although on the flip-side, inflection points can open up the chances to land destructive punches.
This is probably the best post on ESB
lefthook89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:34 PM   #59
James23
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Eastern U.S.
Posts: 1,700
vCash: 1218
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Isn't it funny how easily you can point out the naive person who refers to MMA as UFC?
James23 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 03:05 PM   #60
Ricardo87
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2
vCash: 500
Default Re: Isn't it funny how most UFC fans don't like boxing, yet want to see more stand up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
MMA is garbage. Kids game...

this is chess let the peanut brains enjoy their checkers.
You can tell that your an ignorant person just by the comment you made. I train MMA but I respect boxing as well. Its two different ball games. SO the people that are saying that they want more stand up and watch UFC are just as ignorant as the person how made this comment
Ricardo87 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013