Dick Tiger vs Bernard Hopkins

[Andrei00]

Who wins this, and how?

[Lord Tywin]

Hopkins.

I love Tiger. Against certain fighters he was so much fun to watch. Against others he was plodding one dimensional fighter. Thats what Hopkins would have reduced him to. Too many tools in the tool box.

[PowerPuncher]

Hopkins would outbox Tiger

[red cobra]

I love Dick Tiger and despise Bernard Hopkins, yet I can't imagine Hopkins not outboxing Tiger in this one. It would be very, very close however, because Hopkins was not a natural mover..however he probably would have had to move more than he was used to in this one.

[Titan1]

Bernard would use that calculating style of his to hook up a close UD over Dick, winning about 9 out of 15, or 8 out of 12.

[ecto55]

Dick Tiger beats Hopkins.

He's physically stronger, handspeed is comparable, he's tougher and more rugged, fought in an better era and against better competition than Hopkins etc etc.

Hopkins is getting pumped up by some posters for his boxing acumen...as shown against Tarver, Pascal, Tito trinidad and Pavlic...but in no way does Hopkins have the 'real' old school boxing guile of say a Joey Giardello (YES- I'm disagreeing with Max Kellerman's assertions of Hopkins 'old school' skills).

If Tiger can split four fights with Giardello, he can outhustle Hopkins over the shortened 12.

People need to rnote that Hopkins isn't the second coming of Archie Moore or any other oldtime shark, he's a goldfish would could box among an era of tadpoles who can't.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by ecto55

Dick Tiger beats Hopkins.

He's physically stronger, handspeed is comparable, he's tougher and more rugged, fought in an better era and against better competition than Hopkins etc etc.

Hopkins is getting pumped up by some posters for his boxing acumen...as shown against Tarver, Pascal, Tito trinidad and Pavlic...but in no way does Hopkins have the 'real' old school boxing guile of say a Joey Giardello (YES- I'm disagreeing with Max Kellerman's assertions of Hopkins 'old school' skills).

If Tiger can split four fights with Giardello, he can outhustle Hopkins over the shortened 12.

People need to rnote that Hopkins isn't the second coming of Archie Moore or any other oldtime shark, he's a goldfish would could box among an era of tadpoles who can't.

I would be rooting for this to happen, and yes, Tiger was a lot stronger than Hopkins. like i said, Hopkins would have to move more and be more honest with his output to be able to outpoint Dick Tiger.
True also is your assertion that Tiger's opposition was better than Hopkin's. And also true that Tiger was better than the guys that Hopkins beat. Anyway, i'd be for Tiger all night long.
Maybe my post was wrong.

[Lord Tywin]

Id be rooting for Tiger as well but Im fairly certain he wouldnt be able to get the job done.

I dont really agree with the comparison of Giardello. The only time Tiger convincingly won against Giardello was in their last fight when Giardello was already well past his inconsistent best.

If you look at the guys Tiger lost to during his prime, say 1960 - 66, they are all well rounded durable fighters who confused him with movement. Archer, Griffith, Greaves, and Id throw Torres in there as well because Tiger could have easily lost those fights.

Even Gene Fullmer confused the hell out of Tiger in their first two fights with movement and Fullmer was about as graceful a boxer as Stephen Hawking.

Hopkins may not be your favorite fighter but hes tricky and he can box, hes also very durable, strong, and has a good punch, particularly at middleweight where I assume this bout takes place.

Nobody is going to convince me that Joey Archer was better than Hopkins, or Wilfie Greaves, or Gene Fullmer in full on retreat mode, and maybe not even the old Giardello who beat Tiger for the title.

Throw in Hopkins significant advantages in height and reach and you have a very tough night for Tiger. Tiger only fought one guy as tall as Hopkins, Foster who had two inches on Hopkins, and that did not go well.

I think Hopkins would box and move. He would start out slow and increase both the pace and his activity as the fight wore on and as Tiger became frustrated and made mistakes. Tiger would follow Hopkins around the ring, tapping his gloves together and trying to set traps or time him and would all the while be getting outpointed. Tiger would be competitive because he would have his moments on the inside when Hopkins clinched to rest or minimize the action but outside of that I see this as a win for Hopkins by decision.

[dpw417]

Hopkins by decision.

[WhataRock]

Originally Posted by ecto55

Dick Tiger beats Hopkins.

He's physically stronger, handspeed is comparable, he's tougher and more rugged, fought in an better era and against better competition than Hopkins etc etc.

Hopkins is getting pumped up by some posters for his boxing acumen...as shown against Tarver, Pascal, Tito trinidad and Pavlic...but in no way does Hopkins have the 'real' old school boxing guile of say a Joey Giardello (YES- I'm disagreeing with Max Kellerman's assertions of Hopkins 'old school' skills).

If Tiger can split four fights with Giardello, he can outhustle Hopkins over the shortened 12.

People need to rnote that Hopkins isn't the second coming of Archie Moore or any other oldtime shark, he's a goldfish would could box among an era of tadpoles who can't.

There in lies the problem for me about this fight...If you met Tiger head on, he would match you punch for punch every day of the week..but it's the guys that cut down his countering opportunities by being fairly conservative and using the ring that gave him trouble.

He could cut loose and up the tempo to get himself out of a spot, which he did a few times..he had the physicality to be able to do that.. But Prime Nard doesn't fade and doesn't have any chin issues.

Hopkins of course could have a dismal workrate though..the rounds could come down to a handful of punches in this one..but I can't help but keep picturing Tiger not hustling enough.

I only lean to Hopkins slightly though.

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[bodhi]

Hopkins in his prime did not have a dismal workrate. It was fine.

I think Hopkins boxes him and wins the majority of rounds, Tiger may make him his fight in spots but not over the majority of the fight. In the end I see Hopkins winning a close but clear decision 8-4.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by ecto55

Dick Tiger beats Hopkins.

He's physically stronger, handspeed is comparable, he's tougher and more rugged, fought in an better era and against better competition than Hopkins etc etc.

Hopkins is getting pumped up by some posters for his boxing acumen...as shown against Tarver, Pascal, Tito trinidad and Pavlic...but in no way does Hopkins have the 'real' old school boxing guile of say a Joey Giardello (YES- I'm disagreeing with Max Kellerman's assertions of Hopkins 'old school' skills).

If Tiger can split four fights with Giardello, he can outhustle Hopkins over the shortened 12.

People need to rnote that Hopkins isn't the second coming of Archie Moore or any other oldtime shark, he's a goldfish would could box among an era of tadpoles who can't.

You think Hopkins was 160 in the ring? Here's a clue, Oscar de la friggin Hoya was about 165 against Mayweather. Hopkins is a light heavyweight who squeezed into 160. Hopkins has faced much bigger guys than Tiger and no has been able to ragdoll him.

[ecto55]

Originally Posted by rusak

You think Hopkins was 160 in the ring? Here's a clue, Oscar de la friggin Hoya was about 165 against Mayweather. Hopkins is a light heavyweight who squeezed into 160. Hopkins has faced much bigger guys than Tiger and no has been able to ragdoll him.

I like the way you script your response...its an interisting mixture of condescension and ignorance...

I never said Tiger was blow-up-doll rehydration big, but he was very, very strong. The point is, he's going to be stronger than Hopkins. Rewatch his fight with Carter to reaquaint yourself with how rugged Tiger was.
Similarly, he was able to spar and hold his own with Hvy contenders, and fought and held his Light Heavyweight championship against bigger and more powerful men than Hopkins.

But that's your strawman re. Tiger over Hopkins, not mine.

My point is Hopkin's 'guile' might work with todays's fighters, but will have little impression on Tiger. Hopkin's varied and sneak leads, defensive competance, brawling and boxing routine etc. wont stop Tiger and allow him to be controlled, he's seen all that and better.

And for me, this is where Hopkin's at middle and later won his challenging bouts- he relied on controlling his opponents. When he couldn't control the tempo and pace, he loses. The means and methods Hopkin's will try and apply to control the bout just wont work with Tiger, meaning it end up a bout on Tiger's terms, and no-one will beat Tiger on that terrain.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by ecto55

And for me, this is where Hopkin's at middle and later won his challenging bouts- he relied on controlling his opponents. When he couldn't control the tempo and pace, he loses. The means and methods Hopkin's will try and apply to control the bout just wont work with Tiger, meaning it end up a bout on Tiger's terms, and no-one will beat Tiger on that terrain.

This puzzles me because lesser fighters than Hopkins were able to control the pace and puzzle Tiger using movement.

Hopkins was a better boxer than most of the guys who actually outboxed Tiger. Hopkins was also a better light heavyweight than most if not all of the light heavyweights Tiger fought.

You act as if it was difficult to control the pace against Tiger. Gene proved that wrong. Fullmer couldnt box his way out of a paper bag but the instant he started moving backwards Tiger looked clueless. Tiger was great against guys who came at him. He would chop them up all night long. But when the opponent mixed movement into the equation he gave Tiger problems.

Id be rooting for Tiger but I dont see him winning.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by rusak

You think Hopkins was 160 in the ring? Here's a clue, Oscar de la friggin Hoya was about 165 against Mayweather. Hopkins is a light heavyweight who squeezed into 160. Hopkins has faced much bigger guys than Tiger and no has been able to ragdoll him.

I used to think that but a long time training partner of Hopkins' has said he didn't rise much over 165.

Tiger of course struggled to squeeze himself inside 160lbs quite a lot.

I hate to say it but I agree with Tywin's assessment. Hopkins via close decision, although Tiger would have his moments, he's just too much of a plodder to have consistent spells of success.

I thought the Giadello series was closer than Tywin did though. Out of those that I've seen I saw Tiger winning two of 'em.