All-Time Rankings (Leonard, Canzoneri, Monzon)...

[Aaron Contreras]

Accidentally posted this in General Boxing -- terribly sorry.

But rank these men:

- Tony Canzoneri

- Sugar Ray Leonard

- Carlos Monzon

[junior-soprano]

tony canzoneri is all time p4p top 15. great fighter

[Boxed Ears]

- Tony Canzoneri (13-20)

- Sugar Ray Leonard (8-20)

- Carlos Monzon (20-50)



Arbitrary enough for you?

[Hands of Iron]

SRL
Canzoneri
Monzon

[the cobra]

Leonard & Canzoneri each inside the top 20. Wouldn't have either quite in the top 15.

Monzon - anywhere from 20 to 30.

[LittleRed]

I could see Canzoneri over Leonard or vice versa. Both top 30. Both had done great wins but SRL was more consistent although that might be due to era. Push comes to shove Leonard.over Canzi by close margins.

Monzon over either because fuck you.

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I could see Canzoneri over Leonard or vice versa. Both top 30. Both had done great wins but SRL was more consistent although that might be due to era. Push comes to shove Leonard.over Canzi by close margins.

Monzon over either because fuck you.

A lot of people will neglect to recognise this as a correct line of reasoning but it is they who are living the lie.

[Lester1583]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Monzon over either because fuck you.

You make a persuasive argument, LR.

I tend to agree with it.

[ushvinder]

I would rank roy jones over monzon, monzon is around 50ish for me. Both are the same size, yet one chose to move up in weight while the other didnt. I see roy beating everyone monzon has fought and roy would beat monzon at 160, 168 or 175.

Tony Canzoneri is top 25

Sugar Ray Leonard is somewhat difficult to rank. Yes he has the big 4 wins, however he also lost to duran and he fought hagler after hagler was physically damaged from the hearns and mugabi fights. Cleaned out the welterweight division, but was only an elite fighter for 4 years, looked bad against kevin howard and donny lalonde. I say hes between 20-30.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by ushvinder

Sugar Ray Leonard is somewhat difficult to rank.

Yes.

Yes he has the big 4 wins,

Four of the best in history, and resume is king.

however he also lost to duran

One of the greatest fighters in history, the #2 rated welterweight at the time. He tried to make a unification bout with #1 and WBA titlist Cuevas first before Don King brought his guy (Duran) up front.

and he fought hagler after hagler was physically damaged from the hearns and mugabi fights.

He also fought him past his own best, with one fight in the previous five years and never before at 160. Who picked him to win this fight, with Marvin alledgedly shot to shit and all?

Cleaned out the welterweight division,

Most of it before even getting the title shot.

but was only an elite fighter for 4 years,

In a span under 40 months, defeated Thomas Hearns (undefeated, favored to win), Wilfred Benitez (undefeated, lineal champ), Roberto Duran (only loss to DeJesus in 73 fights), Ayub Kalule (undefeated, lineal 154 champ), Dave Green, Randy Shields, Bruce Finch, Pete Ranzany, Johnny Gant, Floyd Mayweather Sr, Andy Price, Tony Chiaverini, Adolfo Viruet. All rated champs/contenders at the time. Less than 40 Months.

looked bad against kevin howard

This is another reason the Hagler win is impressive.

and donny lalonde.

Who cares?

I say hes between 20-30.

K.

[red cobra]

Monzon tops the other two guys and you all know it.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Little Red

Monzon over either because fuck you.

Originally Posted by Lester1583

You make a persuasive argument, LR.

I tend to agree with it.

Originally Posted by red cobra

Monzon tops the other two guys and you all know it.

[ushvinder]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Yes.



Four of the best in history, and resume is king.



One of the greatest fighters in history, the #2 rated welterweight at the time. He tried to make a unification bout with #1 and WBA titlist Cuevas first before Don King brought his guy (Duran) up front.



He also fought him past his own best, with one fight in the previous five years and never before at 160. Who picked him to win this fight, with Marvin alledgedly shot to shit and all?



Most of it before even getting the title shot.



In a span under 40 months, defeated Thomas Hearns (undefeated, favored to win), Wilfred Benitez (undefeated, lineal champ), Roberto Duran (only loss to DeJesus in 73 fights), Ayub Kalule (undefeated, lineal 154 champ), Dave Green, Randy Shields, Bruce Finch, Pete Ranzany, Johnny Gant, Floyd Mayweather Sr, Andy Price, Tony Chiaverini, Adolfo Viruet. All rated champs/contenders at the time. Less than 40 Months.



This is another reason the Hagler win is impressive.



Who cares?



K.

I dont think its that clear cut for leonard being the #2 welterweight. After all there are fighters like barbados joe walcott and kid gavilan who dwarf him in career achievements. Mickey Walker has a solid claim too.

I give him credit for beating hagler, but he only fought marvin because of the mugabi fight. Leonard even said after the mugabi fight, `he`s mine`. Being in physical wars is far more damaging than being 'ringrust' like leonard was. Also, leonard supposedly had real life exhibition fights behind closed doors that arent shown on boxrec, so he was well prepared for the fight. They were all out exhibition matches, not sparring sessions with headgear.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

Accidentally posted this in General Boxing -- terribly sorry.

But rank these men:

- Tony Canzoneri

- Sugar Ray Leonard

- Carlos Monzon

Don't worry AC, aside from Leonard, they didn't know those names anyway.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by ushvinder

I dont think its that clear cut for leonard being the #2 welterweight. After all there are fighters like barbados joe walcott and kid gavilan who dwarf him in career achievements. Mickey Walker has a solid claim too.

I give him credit for beating hagler, but he only fought marvin because of the mugabi fight. Leonard even said after the mugabi fight, `he`s mine`. Being in physical wars is far more damaging than being 'ringrust' like leonard was. Also, leonard supposedly had real life exhibition fights behind closed doors that arent shown on boxrec, so he was well prepared for the fight. They were all out exhibition matches, not sparring sessions with headgear.

I'm not telling you how to think, all that is fine. Most of the above is just obvious (or rooted in) facts. He's resume isn't at all thin; in any way, form or fashion really. He beat oodles of contenders to go with his collection of top wins, which most in history would be hard pressed to match. People don't like the guy, I get it. Nor do I care.