lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

[KidDynamite]

I'm not a Lewis fan but he clearly beat Holyfield both times and the first fight was a robbery.

Bowe ducked him and Lewis was the dominant champion for most of the 90s

[thesandman]

Originally Posted by WiDDoW_MaKeR

Are you being serious? John Ruiz proved to be better than that Holyfield. Ruiz beat Holyfield more impressively than Lewis, ffs. Byrd absolutely embarrassed Holy when they fought after Ruiz was done with him.

I didn't realise Holy stopped aging at 37.
Didn't Holy and Ruiz go 1-1-1?

And I don't think Lewis beating Tyson means **** all. It was one old guy past his best, beating one almost as old guy, who was miles past his best.

Who has Wlad beat that compares to a 31 year old Vitaly BTW?

[Montero]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

Wlad has been ducking James Toney for over 8 years now

He ducked a Puritty and Sanders rematch and let his brother fight his battles

I hope you're just trolling and having a little fun here...

[aduriz]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

Eddie Chambers, Tony Thompson and the other collection of complete BUMS on Wlads resume don't compare at all

Only in the klit era would these nobodies be contenders ...

The 90s had much more talent and guys like Bruce Seldon and Frans Botha (who never even really had a belt) are better than most of the bums that the Klits beat, like Wach

Shannon Briggs who never held a belt in the 90s had a stap in the bitchko era when he was old and senile

franc botha had a belt ( ibf heavyweight title ) and more importantly , he got ko'd by wlad less than 2 years after the lewis fight . so it's funny to see the double standard here , give lewis credit for the win , but not wlad
bruce seldon was not good , he lost to pretty much every good opponent he faced

chagaev , haye , chris byrd , samuel peter etc.. are better than most of the 90's titles holders

[Montero]

Originally Posted by thesandman

It's harder to fight everyone when you're not splitting the division with your brother.

I hear ya, but they are brothers - they're not going to fight each other. Also, Wlad has cleaned out the division and faced the much better opposition than his brother. You also gotta consider Vitali was on the sidelines for 4 years while Wlad established himself as the premiere HW.

Originally Posted by thesandman

longer. Maybe. More dominant? No. Because there has been a clear top 2 fighters in the division for years. And they haven't fought.

You could say the same thing about Lewis and Riddick Bowe. There were also times when guys like Chris Byrd, John Ruiz, etc were highly rated and Lewis never faced them. Also, as I stated above - Wlad has clearly done MUCH more than Vitali and distanced himself from his older brother. Vitali is merely a titlist, Wlad is the champion.

Originally Posted by thesandman

Up until a couple if years ago, I'd say Vitali would have had a great chance to beat Wlad.

Prime for prime Wlad beats Vitali by decision.

Originally Posted by thesandman

At no time was the WBO considered on par with the other belts at that time. Wlads been legit since beating Byrd. Which is still a long and impressive stretch.

I'll give you that one, the WBO was considered a minor title and still is by many. This is why I used words like "title defense" and/or "title belt" instead of "championship defense" - they are different things. However, Wlad's actualy championship reign (the new lineage he created when he beat Chagaev) has already been longer and more dominant than Lewis' (in terms of frequency of fights, rounds won, and stoppages).

All in all, very solid and reasonable arguments from you my friend. It's good to see some moderate, logical thinking people on this board - there are way too many extremists, haters and dick riders.

[Manning]

Originally Posted by thesandman

Sorry?

Those guys were better than Holyfield.
Who at the time had the WBA, IBF, Ring (spit) belts. Was lineal champ, and actually favourite to beat Lewis.

You think Iggy was better?
Peter?
Byrd?

Come on man. Be serious.

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=sJa1Ismh1Zo[/ame]

The same version of Holy that Lewis fought.

A further down the line version of Holy.

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=WzyIt_iyCac[/ame]

Both near shut out victories for Byrd and Iggy.

[KidDynamite]

The IBF never accepted Botha as a champion since he tested positive for steroids

Bruce won the WBA title when it was vacant

[irishny]

Originally Posted by Manning

[URL]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=sJa1Ismh1Zo[/URL]

The same version of Holy that Lewis fought.

A further down the line version of Holy.

[URL]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=WzyIt_iyCac[/URL]

Both near shut out victories for Byrd and Iggy.

A MUCH further down the line Holy.

Even the Byrd fight was 3 years after he fought Lewis.

Theres a guy on tyhis page who reckoned Holy was already past ity when he fight Lewis.

What does that mean he was 3 years later??

Let alone against Iggy when he was 44!

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Originally Posted by thesandman

I didn't realise Holy stopped aging at 37.
Didn't Holy and Ruiz go 1-1-1?

And I don't think Lewis beating Tyson means **** all. It was one old guy past his best, beating one almost as old guy, who was miles past his best.

Who has Wlad beat that compares to a 31 year old Vitaly BTW?

Yes, Holy and Ruiz went 1-1-1, with Ruiz walking away with the title. The only reason that they fought 3 times, was because Holyfield's win over Ruiz was extremely controversial and most felt that he clearly lost. So... that Holyfield was a great win for Lewis? C'mon man... he was clearly past his best. You think prime Holyfield goes 1-1-1 with John Ruiz? BTW, Holyfield was still 37 when he fought Ruiz the first time.


You are really going to brag up a fight, won by a grazing punch that caused a cut... in which Lewis was losing on all scorecards? A fight that ultimately chased Lewis into retirement? Lewis sat on his title for 8 months after his fight with Klitschko, making Vitali jump through hoops for a rematch... trying to sue Tyson into the ring and fight Roy Jones Jr... then immediately retired when the WBC rules that he must fight Vitali next.

That's something to be proud of? I give Lewis credit for hanging in there after being completely embarrased by Vitali in that 2nd round. However, it sure as hell wasn't a fight that proved Lewis was a better boxer than Vitali. If anything, it was a fight that proved exactly how good Vitali was. By all accounts, Vitali became much better with the confidence boost that he had after that fight. We saw Vitali growing into his prime after his fight with Lewis and then his career was cut short by injuries, retirement, ect...

Sure, Lewis walked out of that fight with a W. However, that didn't prove that he was better than Vitali, and Lewis sure as hell wasn't interested in fighting again to find out. Even with the buckets of money that was thrown at him for the rematch.... over 25 million dollars. That says all that we need to know about how Lewis really felt about that win, and about his chances in a rematch.

[irishny]

Originally Posted by WiDDoW_MaKeR

Yes, Holy and Ruiz went 1-1-1, with Ruiz walking away with the title. The only reason that they fought 3 times, was because Holyfield's win over Ruiz was extremely controversial and most felt that he clearly lost. So... that Holyfield was a great win for Lewis? C'mon man... he was clearly past his best. You think prime Holyfield goes 1-1-1 with John Ruiz?


You are really going to brag up a fight, won by a grazing punch that caused a cut... in which Lewis was losing on all scorecards? A fight that ultimately chased Lewis into retirement? Lewis sat on his title for 8 months after his fight with Klitschko, making Vitali jump through hoops for a rematch... trying to sue Tyson into the ring and fight Roy Jones Jr... then immediately retired when the WBC rules that he must fight Vitali next.

That's something to be proud of? I give Lewis credit for hanging in there after being completely embarrased by Vitali in that 2nd round. However, it sure as hell wasn't a fight that proved Lewis was a better boxer than Vitali. If anything, it was a fight that proved exactly how good Vitali was. By all accounts, Vitali became much better with the confidence boost that he had after that fight. We saw Vitali growing into his prime after his fight with Lewis and then his career was cut short by injuries, retirement, ect...

Sure, Lewis walked out of that fight with a W. However, that didn't prove that he was better than Vitali, and Lewis sure as hell wasn't interested in fighting again to find out. Even with the buckets of money that was thrown at him for the rematch.... over 25 million dollars. That says all that we need to know about how Lewis really felt about that win, and about his chances in a rematch.

THIS
[IMG]********img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00953/2003pela_350x475_953862a.jpg[/IMG]

was not caused by a "grazing punch"

[KidDynamite]

LOL @ this fraud Klittard

He sued Tyson (it was actually Don King) BEFORE he fought bitchko, not afterwards when he "sat on his title"

He sued Don King in May of 2003 and fought Quitali in June of 2003

[KidDynamite]

Originally Posted by irishny

THIS
[IMG]********img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00953/2003pela_350x475_953862a.jpg[/IMG]

was not caused by a "grazing punch"

60 stiches and cosmetic surgery = "grazing punch" and bitchko land

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Originally Posted by irishny

THIS
[IMG]********img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00953/2003pela_350x475_953862a.jpg[/IMG]

was not caused by a "grazing punch"

The cut that ended the fight, in the 3rd round was CLEARLY caused by a grazing punch. Vitali dipped to the right, and Lewis' right, missing it's mark, gripped and ripped the skin of Vitali's eye with either the edge, or the thumb of Lewis' glove.

This is the punch (the first right hand attempted in this GIF)... see for yourself if you are actually interested in the truth.
[IMG]********img191.imageshack.us/img191/6199/thecuts.gif[/IMG]

[Manning]

Originally Posted by irishny

A MUCH further down the line Holy.

Even the Byrd fight was 3 years after he fought Lewis.

Theres a guy on tyhis page who reckoned Holy was already past ity when he fight Lewis.

What does that mean he was 3 years later??

Let alone against Iggy when he was 44!

Yes and those fights weren't close at all and I personally stick by my original point in saying Iggy and Byrd were much tougher foes than the versions of Tyson and Holy that Lewis beat.

[irishny]

Originally Posted by WiDDoW_MaKeR

The cut that ended the fight, in the 3rd round was CLEARLY caused by a grazing punch. Vitali dipped to the right, and Lewis' right, missing it's mark, gripped and ripped the skin of Vitali's eye with either the edge, or the thumb of Lewis' glove.

This is the punch... see for yourself if you are actually interested in the truth.
[IMG]********img191.imageshack.us/img191/6199/thecuts.gif[/IMG]

Highly debateable as to what constitutes a grazed punch.
And the 3 other AWFUL looking cuts on his face?

Grazed punches too?