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Old 11-15-2012, 09:58 AM   #166
Ilesey
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

OP is yet to reach her chin prime.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:02 AM   #167
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

How has this thread gone for 12 pages?

Klithugger's blind devotion knows no limits
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:11 AM   #168
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
I'm not the one who's grasping, the burden of proof is on you ****tards to prove that any of Wlad's opponents will go on to better things, despite their being no evidence or indication any of them will. You can also list reasons why Vitali will be a Hall of Famer, based on what, his resume?
lewis fans always belittle vitali but at the same time claim that lennox tko'ing him was a major win


but seriously , TKO 6 is the best win in lennox's resume .

lewis and tyson were shot to shit . how someone can't argue against this is beyond me
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:14 AM   #169
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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You are assuming Vitali will be a Hall of Famer, his resume and sharing of the division would suggest otherwise in most reasonable fans books. I'm not sure mythical H2H status ensures you a place, but then playing a boxer in a movie is enough so who knows. There's always the 'Barry McGuigan Precedent' I guess.

As for the final historical standing of Wlad's opponents, please name one that you think will even get near the HOF at this point (I'll give you Byrd maybe). Without laughing if possible. Most of the guys touted as potential champs have been avoided by both Klits so far, although I think the likes of Price, Fury and Helennius will turn out to be B level eventually anyway.
please go to British forum, stop embarrassing yourself
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:24 AM   #170
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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I'm not the one who's grasping, the burden of proof is on you ****tards to prove that any of Wlad's opponents will go on to better things, despite their being no evidence or indication any of them will. You can also list reasons why Vitali will be a Hall of Famer, based on what, his resume?
Ive broke down the competition in every era from JOHN L to LL you clown . The facts are clear . This era is fine and the brothers are extrordinary figters . That the fact .
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:31 AM   #171
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Look, whether you're a Lennox lover/hater or a Wlad lover/hater, you've got to put your bias aside and recognize some things:

1. the 90's was a better HW era than this current one
2. there were more mainstream "names" in Lewis' era
3. Lewis had more exciting fights than Wlad has so far
4. Wlad has had to split the division with his bother

But on the other hand...

5. Wlad has fought every single willing and available contender out there, while Lewis did avoid some guys
6. Wlad's reign has arguably been longer, more dominant and consistent than Lewis'
7. Wlad has won and defended more title belts than Lewis ever did
8. by the time Wlad retires he'll have 20+ more pro fights (and KO's) than Lewis and 10+ more title defenses

So all in all it comes down to this - these 2 ATG, first ballot hall of fame HWs will always be compared to each other because they have had very similar careers. When it comes to ATG ranking, it depends on what your preference is. Do you prefer Lewis' stronger era, or Wlad's longevity and consistency over a longer time frame?
Wlad has never fought the number 2 in his era.

Lewis has fought and beaten the number 2 in his own and Vlads era
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:37 AM   #172
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Ruddock had more in the tank post Tyson than Chag had post hepatitis.
Ike had already smeared Byrd on the canvas.
Iggy? Just watch him.


And didn't super great Byrd need a highly dodgy decision to get past an old, past it Golota?
Or was it a draw? I forget.
Byrd also deserved to lose against Oquendo. If he had those two deserved losses on his record, I don't think he'd be as highly rated as he is.

I've always considered Byrd to be Wlad's best opponent and I still do, but by a much lesser margin. He was nowhere near a great fighter. He did deserve to lose to both Golota and Oquendo, which would greatly diminish his record if he had actual losses.

I don't think Byrd was as good as fighters like Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Young or Razor Ruddock. He was a level below those guys and probably doesn't belong in the top 50 heavyweights of all time.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #173
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

Well resume saying you beat every guy you fought in your career is pretty good.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #174
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

By the same token klit fans are first to point at guys like calzaghe and say he's overrated his division sucked for ages he avoided certain people blah blah blah.Cant escape the fact that apart from the klits there have been no good heavies you have to bring up cruiserweights when discussing the only opponents without man boobs and one packs.

I seriously don't think wlad would have lasted 3 rounds against many of the 90's heavies.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:43 AM   #175
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by aduriz View Post
lewis fans always belittle vitali but at the same time claim that lennox tko'ing him was a major win


but seriously , TKO 6 is the best win in lennox's resume .

lewis and tyson were shot to shit . how someone can't argue against this is beyond me
I don't belittle Vitali, he's an ABC titleist with numerous defences against awful opposition, who showed he wasn't good enough to beat the best from the previous era and refuses to fight the best in his own era, and now refuses to fight the 2nd or 3rd best in Haye. Lewis' top 10 ATG status would have been assured without facing Vitali, and that one victory isn't really enough to place him any higher by more than 1 or 2 spots so it makes little difference to his legacy overall.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:13 PM   #176
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by thesandman View Post
If Vit's last name was Maskaev, there'd be an uproar that the 2 hadn't fought, and both guys would be titlists.
A bit like Pac v Mayweather really.
I wouldn't say it's like Pacquiao and Mayweather b/c those two are clearly the top 2 fighters of this generation and an argument could be made for either of them being "the man". In regards to the Klitschkos, Wlad is way above Vitali on the ATG list and is clearly the HW of the post Lewis era.

To me it's comparative to the Roy Jones - Dariusz Michalczewski situation. They were the clear #1 and #2 of that time, but I think we all know Jones was the man.


Quote:
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Nah, when one guy walks away from a contracted fight as part of a 4 man heavyweight tournament - the tournament being the ONLY reason you got your title shot in the first place (Ruddock was actually first in line to face Holy) you lose all credibility in regards to dominance. Especially when your next fights are against Dokes and Ferguson.
Agreed. I think Bowe gets very overrated on this forum. Very solid heavyweight, but an under acheiver that rose and fell quickly. Outside of the Holyfield wins, what else did he accomplish?


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Originally Posted by thesandman View Post
Good fight. Wlad would be favourite, but Vitali would be a very live underdog.
Agreed. The Klitschko brothers could fight a million times and evey time they would be close, competetive bouts. Vitali is the more natural born fighter and that's honestly what's made him so good. But Wlad is the better athlete, the better boxer and has much more power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesandman View Post
IMO, I still think Lewis fought and beat the better fighters. That's absolutely not Wlads fault. There's very few guys he hasn't fought, it's just really outside of the brothers - Haye isn't too bad but clearly is solely in it for the money - there's really not much.
Yep. And that's why you have to rate Lewis higher at this point. However, I think Wlad can out-rate Lennox when it's all said and done based on the length of his reign, number of defenses, etc. If Wlad carries on like this into his 40's and beats guys like Price, Povetkin, Pulev, Mitchell, Wilder, etc - he could very well end up in the top 5 ATG.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #177
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by Montero View Post
Yep. And that's why you have to rate Lewis higher at this point. However, I think Wlad can out-rate Lennox when it's all said and done based on the length of his reign, number of defenses, etc. If Wlad carries on like this into his 40's and beats guys like Price, Povetkin, Pulev, Mitchell, Wilder, etc - he could very well end up in the top 5 ATG.
I agree. The keys for Wlad are:

1. Do not get knocked out by some random bum
2. Ideally stay and retire unbeaten from hereon
3. The guys he beats in the next 2-4 years have to become future HW belt holders

That would solidify Wlad's HW standing tremendously. Obviously, it would all fall apart if some random guy comes along and KTFOs him.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:41 PM   #178
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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1. Do not get knocked out by some random bum
The problem for Wlad's legacy is that he's already been knocked out by C-class fighters, in Brewster and Sanders. Even if he doesn't lose again in his career, those losses will always haunt him. They have to. His legacy will always be defined by his past.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #179
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

My guess is the TS didn' follow boxing in the 90's or wasn't old enough. Most ignorant posts like this are because people look at boxrec after the fact and form their own conclusions.

Shit, i remember my Dad telling me how good some fighters i thought were a joke were at the end of their careers. he would get pissed at my lack of knowledge, now I understand why.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:08 PM   #180
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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My guess is the TS didn' follow boxing in the 90's or wasn't old enough. Most ignorant posts like this are because people look at boxrec after the fact and form their own conclusions.
This. If i started following boxing in the 2000's like a lot of the clowns here, I too would probably think Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, etc were nothing special in their prime. Fortunately, a lot of posters here have been fans for decades and know better. This HW era is shocking, and it's not helped by the two main champions continually fighting a succession of cans, novices, cruiserweights and has-beens while avoiding each other. I understand that they're brothers, but it has to be held against them when other fighters had to do it all, and more, on their own.
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