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Old 11-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #16
davidjay
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by macho_grande View Post
When we get European journyman coming over and we call them Eurobums, Latvian Cab Drivers etc.

What do you think the Europeans call our bums that go over to their countries?
Michael Sprott.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

No. Britain has quantity.
European top 5 2012
1. Ukraine - Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko
2. Russia - Povetkin, Lebedev, Golovkin (of Russian origin), Pirog
3-4 Poland and Britain
Poland - Adamek, Wlodarczyk
Britain - Haye, Froch
5. Germany - Huck, Abraham
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

Going by the boxrec p4p top 25 (the exact order isn't great, but they don't give credit for padded records, so it's not terrible for general info).

9 Brits
4 Russians
4 Germans
2 Ukrainians
2 Poles
1 Bulgarian
1 Dane
1 Finn
1 Romanian

I would say the Brits are doing pretty well, though not as well as it seemed at that point in time when Hatton was yet to fight Floyd, Haye was still dominating cruisers, Calzaghe was near the top of the P4P list, Witter hadn't been beaten in 8 years, and a bunch of unbeaten guys coming up like Froch, Khan, Mitchell, Murray, Rees. Even Enzo Mac was on a seven year winning streak before being derailed by Haye. Alex Arthur was on a roll too. Things looked great then, but 2008/2009 was a bad year for many of those, and the picture looked a lot different after that.

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Old 11-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
No. Britain has quantity.
European top 5 2012
1. Ukraine - Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko
2. Russia - Povetkin, Lebedev, Golovkin (of Russian origin), Pirog
3-4 Poland and Britain
Poland - Adamek, Wlodarczyk
Britain - Haye, Froch
5. Germany - Huck, Abraham
Ukraine
Klychko's
Glazkov - top HW prospect
Kucher - top CW prospect, RING top 10
Kashtanov SMW WBA Interm
Bursak -
Dzinziruk
Kotelnyk
Uzelkov
Postol
Senchenko

Russia
Povetkin
Boytsov
Lebedev
Chakhkiev
Alekseev
Drozd
Sukhotsky
Kovalev
Grachev
Steiglitz
Vlasov
Pirog
Golovkin
Korobov
Baysangurov
Shafikov
Allakhverdiev
Provodnikov
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Ukraine
Klychko's
Glazkov - top HW prospect
Kucher - top CW prospect, RING top 10
Kashtanov SMW WBA Interm
Bursak -
Dzinziruk
Kotelnyk
Uzelkov
Postol
Senchenko

Russia
Povetkin
Boytsov
Lebedev
Chakhkiev
Alekseev
Drozd
Sukhotsky
Kovalev
Grachev
Steiglitz
Vlasov
Pirog
Golovkin
Korobov
Baysangurov
Shafikov
Allakhverdiev
Provodnikov
Korobov has not done anything to be considered a good pro yet

His career has been disappointing
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
No. Britain has quantity.
European top 5 2012
1. Ukraine - Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko
2. Russia - Povetkin, Lebedev, Golovkin (of Russian origin), Pirog
3-4 Poland and Britain
Poland - Adamek, Wlodarczyk
Britain - Haye, Froch
5. Germany - Huck, Abraham
How is Froch not first tier? His resume is clearly ahead of Vitali's. Dirrell, Pascal, Taylor, Johnson and Bute are calibre's Vitali can't dream of in his piss poor division.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
No. Britain has quantity.
European top 5 2012
1. Ukraine - Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko
2. Russia - Povetkin, Lebedev, Golovkin (of Russian origin), Pirog
3-4 Poland and Britain
Poland - Adamek, Wlodarczyk
Britain - Haye, Froch
5. Germany - Huck, Abraham
Pirog is from Kazakhstan - he is not Russian.

Abraham is Armenian.

Furthermore Amir Khan has achieved more then Povetkin, Lebedev and Wlodarczyk. Why does he not warrant a mention?

And if we're talking historically England have been the most successful nation in the whole of Europe by some distance.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #23
Angol
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

to be fair, if britain can be counted as one country (when, it is indeed 4), then i cant argue with the likes of golovkin (who, at the date of his birth, was born into the ussr) being considered 'russian' (lets not get into a debate comparing empires/commonwealths etc, for arguments sake the ussr was predominantly run by russians).

because, to say that ENGLAND has produced the best fighters in europe, would be a tad misleading. Britain, not England.

past and present names, of note, include

Joe C, Enzo, Cleverly, Rees - Wales

Burns, Watt - Scotland

McGuigan, Frampton - NI
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:16 PM   #24
ollyc
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Angol View Post
to be fair, if britain can be counted as one country (when, it is indeed 4), then i cant argue with the likes of golovkin (who, at the date of his birth, was born into the ussr) being considered 'russian' (lets not get into a debate comparing empires/commonwealths etc, for arguments sake the ussr was predominantly run by russians).

because, to say that ENGLAND has produced the best fighters in europe, would be a tad misleading. Britain, not England.

past and present names, of note, include

Joe C, Enzo, Cleverly, Rees - Wales

Burns, Watt - Scotland

McGuigan, Frampton - NI
A) BRITAIN is three countries. Not 4.

B) Why are you mentioning the likes of Enzo, Cleverly, Rees and Frampton?

England has produced the likes of Kid Berg, Kid Lewis, Brown, Moran, Turpin, Downes, Mills, Minter, Stracey, Conteh, Benn, Eubank, Honeyghan, Hamed ... some would claim Fitzsimmons and Lennox (i'm not one of them) ... in the past decade we've produced the likes of Hatton, Haye and Froch to go with some pretty solid beltholders.

So yeah, I stick by my assertion that England has produced a greater volume of top tier fighters then any other European nation.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Angol View Post
to be fair, if britain can be counted as one country (when, it is indeed 4), then i cant argue with the likes of golovkin (who, at the date of his birth, was born into the ussr) being considered 'russian' (lets not get into a debate comparing empires/commonwealths etc, for arguments sake the ussr was predominantly run by russians).

because, to say that ENGLAND has produced the best fighters in europe, would be a tad misleading. Britain, not England.

past and present names, of note, include

Joe C, Enzo, Cleverly, Rees - Wales

Burns, Watt - Scotland

McGuigan, Frampton - NI
McGuigan is from the Republic of Ireland.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by ollyc View Post
A) BRITAIN is three countries. Not 4.

B) Why are you mentioning the likes of Enzo, Cleverly, Rees and Frampton?

England has produced the likes of Kid Berg, Kid Lewis, Brown, Moran, Turpin, Downes, Mills, Minter, Stracey, Conteh, Benn, Eubank, Honeyghan, Hamed ... some would claim Fitzsimmons and Lennox (i'm not one of them) ... in the past decade we've produced the likes of Hatton, Haye and Froch to go with some pretty solid beltholders.

So yeah, I stick by my assertion that England has produced a greater volume of top tier fighters then any other European nation.
Going by the granny rule Ireland has you beat easily!
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Going by the granny rule Ireland has you beat easily!
Whilst I believe that the individual has the right to determine his or her own nationality, I believe that any connection beyond your parents to an ancestral land is a tenuous one. I don't want to get into a big nationality debate because the likes of Arran, Abertawe and Slap would insure that the debate descends into hateful slander.

And in any respect we're still the cream of Europe. And we have the best domestic belt. So there.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by ollyc View Post
Pirog is from Kazakhstan - he is not Russian.

Abraham is Armenian.
Pirog is Russian. You may be thinking of some other middleweight, though.

Abraham came to Germany at 14 I think. He started boxing in Germany and is a German citizen. He can be a German boxer as much as he wants to.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by mckay_89 View Post
I think Cleverly and Bellew would batter any European fighter. If you were to go through the weightclasses and pick the best European fighter in each I believe Brits would be at the top of most:

Heavyweight - Wlad Klitschko

Cruiser - Marco Huck

Light Heavy - Nathan Cleverly

Super Middleweight - Carl Froch (there's an argument for Kessler but he's not been very active and didn't look great against Allan 'Bum' Green)

Middle - Pirog (Does Golovkin count as European? If so I'd say him)

Light Middle - Sergei Dzinziruk

Welter - Kell Brook

Light Welter - Amir Khan

Lightweight - Ricky Burns

Super Feather - Liam Walsh/Vitali Tajbert

Feather - Lee Selby

Super Bantam - Carl Frampton

Bantam - Jamie McDonnell

Super Fly - Paul Butler

Flyweight - ??
Except Frampton isn't British.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: Does Britain p4p have the best group of fighters in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Angol View Post
to be fair, if britain can be counted as one country (when, it is indeed 4), then i cant argue with the likes of golovkin (who, at the date of his birth, was born into the ussr) being considered 'russian' (lets not get into a debate comparing empires/commonwealths etc, for arguments sake the ussr was predominantly run by russians).

because, to say that ENGLAND has produced the best fighters in europe, would be a tad misleading. Britain, not England.

past and present names, of note, include

Joe C, Enzo, Cleverly, Rees - Wales

Burns, Watt - Scotland

McGuigan, Frampton - NI
Actually, Britain is made up of 3 countries.. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

And Barry McGuigan is from the Republic not the North.
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