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Old 11-16-2012, 04:53 PM   #1
highguard
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Default did angelo dundee know how to box????

before anyone gets offended

yes he was a very nice guy(i know people that met him), he was a great at picking up your spirts up in a losing fight, and i like him commenting on fights
also you can tell he really loved boxing and his fighters

BUT,

DID HE KNOW HOW TO BOX???
he did ever spar or even train,
because you dont hear much about that,

the guys he trained such as ali,leonard,ellis,pastarno,thomas
were all ready made guys who were good pros already or
Olympic amateur champions when he started to coach them.

when you see dundee with them
you never see really see him fixing or showing any boxing punches or movements, just talking about generic combos

you never see him doing pad work, or anything really where you can see how much he really knows

this video is a pure example of what i am talking about

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzX-lbVrSmg[/ame]
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

I'm not sure doing 'pad work' shows 'how much a trainer knows'.

Anyway Angelo Dundee did a couple of books "I Only Talk Winning" and "My View From The Corner", it should say in those what, if any, personal boxing experience he had.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Don't know if he could box, but he musta had a great left hook to the labonza.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Toward the end Dundee says "Don't ever, ever hold a man behind the head. That's the worst thing you can do"

Anyone spot the irony?
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I'm not sure doing 'pad work' shows 'how much a trainer knows'.

Anyway Angelo Dundee did a couple of books "I Only Talk Winning" and "My View From The Corner", it should say in those what, if any, personal boxing experience he had.

pad work shows a bit actually,
is the trainer telling the guy to throw the things at the right distance,
the trainer moves a bit himself, and works a lot a lot of counter punching,
also you can see trainers from different countries holding pads different often....
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillB View Post
Toward the end Dundee says "Don't ever, ever hold a man behind the head. That's the worst thing you can do"

Anyone spot the irony?
lol, and generic advice
"throw combos lol etc

show me a part where you there is specific advice like
"jab, step back right hand" etc,
"your steping back to much-not far enough etc"
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

I know so many trainers who can't do the pads at all... They bring in "facilitators".

Dundee was a jack of all trades; His services as a manager and counseler and corner man just as important as his services in the gym.

He understood the finer points of boxing, as far as I can tell, but seemed to leave that part to the more keen, detail oriented trainers in a champions entourage, preferring a larger, more above-the-fray role, sometimes only joining camp in its later stages. A lot like Manny Steward for fighters that weren't house; Manny only trained Andy Lee, Wladimir Klitschko, and K9 Bundrage full time. Other fighters have brought him in, but he only went in the late stages and cornered for the fight.

Both men are missed. RIP.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I know so many trainers who can't do the pads at all... They bring in "facilitators".

Dundee was a jack of all trades; His services as a manager and counseler and corner man just as important as his services in the gym.

He understood the finer points of boxing, as far as I can tell, but seemed to leave that part to the more keen, detail oriented trainers in a champions entourage, preferring a larger, more above-the-fray role, sometimes only joining camp in its later stages. A lot like Manny Steward for fighters that weren't house; Manny only trained Andy Lee, Wladimir Klitschko, and K9 Bundrage full time. Other fighters have brought him in, but he only went in the late stages and cornered for the fight.

Both men are missed. RIP.
Thanks for the insight magna youve become an invaluable poster
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Angelo's brother Chris ran a boxing gym and handled many fighters. Angelo was around the gym a lot. he got his break with carmen Basilio because Basilio liked the way the Angelo wrapped his hands. nothing more.
he got the job with Ali precisely because he would not try to train Ali. He would let Ali do what he wanted to do. He got the job with Leonard primarily as a matchmaker; Leonard's amateur trainers did the bulk of the training early on.
If you think he told Leonard anything leonard didn't know in the first hearns fight, you are wrong. He handled a bunch of guys that were already set and didn't need or want somebody in the corner babbling in their ear. Ali ignored him, foreman ignored him, and so did Leonard (though he was nice enough to give him credit in his book.)
A good friend of mine, who sparred with emile griffith and traveled in liston's camp, told me that he watched Angelo for many hours in the gym and came to the conclusion that he did nothing.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

I boxed for Angie's 5th St. Amateur team in the mid '50s, 'n I'd had countless great trainers since the early '40s at Stillman's in N.Y., 'n Ang was terrific. He was terrific because he knew instinctively how to get the best from each fighter. He didn't do it by the numbers and cheer lead.

We'da followed him barefoot over broken glass.

We not only wanted to win but we wanted to win for him. The trips back to Miami after a team win are still euphoric memories. Our team was tight.

Not only was he able to look after Cassius Clay, Pastrano and all the first-rate talent coming from Cuba, he was hands on with his amateur team (knew all our names) pointing out everything we needed to fix 'n how to do it.

He was like a great jockey that knew how ta guide us down the home stretch, with just a touch on the shoulder or a look in the eye, like Whitey Bimstein or Freddie Brown.

He didn't grandstand elaborate instructions between rounds for TV or gym rats to analyze. Sure, he exhorted a fighter, but his real instruction might have been a touch on the right shoulder, meaning it was finally time to throw the lead right to the body.

When it worked, and the man caved, It was like hitting LOTTO.

So for me Angie was a terrific trainer, not a cheerleader or a towel carrier left to have his between rounds advice second guessed by websters who wanna hear it communicated the way they wanna hear it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
I boxed for Angie's 5th St. Amateur team in the mid '50s, 'n I'd had countless great trainers since the early '40s at Stillman's in N.Y., 'n Ang was terrific. He was terrific because he knew instinctively how to get the best from each fighter. He didn't do it by the numbers and cheer lead.

We'da followed him barefoot over broken glass.

We not only wanted to win but we wanted to win for him. The trips back to Miami after a team win are still euphoric memories. Our team was tight.

Not only was he able to look after Cassius Clay, Pastrano and all the first-rate talent coming from Cuba, he was hands on with his amateur team (knew all our names) pointing out everything we needed to fix 'n how to do it.

He was like a great jockey that knew how ta guide us down the home stretch, with just a touch on the shoulder or a look in the eye, like Whitey Bimstein or Freddie Brown.

He didn't grandstand elaborate instructions between rounds for TV or gym rats to analyze. Sure, he exhorted a fighter, but his real instruction might have been a touch on the right shoulder, meaning it was finally time to throw the lead right to the body.

When it worked, and the man caved, It was like hitting LOTTO.

So for me Angie was a terrific trainer, not a cheerleader or a towel carrier left to have his between rounds advice second guessed by websters who wanna hear it communicated the way they wanna hear it.
So, in the mid 1950s, you had been boxing as an amateur since the early 1940s? And, during the mid 1950s, Dundee was not only handling your amateur team, but Ali, who didn't go to the olympics until 1960? And Pastrano? And he was with Basilio and handlng an amateur team too?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
So, in the mid 1950s, you had been boxing as an amateur since the early 1940s? And, during the mid 1950s, Dundee was not only handling your amateur team, but Ali, who didn't go to the olympics until 1960? And Pastrano? And he was with Basilio and handlng an amateur team too?
Think the correct chronology was, g: Ali came to 5th St. just after winning the Olympics. Ang was already working with Pastrano, and I started training at 5th St. about 1954. I trained at Stillman' from '46 to '54. Hope that clears it up.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

he was an incredible inspiration. I don't think Lou Duva did much mitt work either, but having those two guys in your corner must have been incredible, and you always knew they would go all out for you. When a guy if fighting that means a lot.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
pad work shows a bit actually,
is the trainer telling the guy to throw the things at the right distance,
the trainer moves a bit himself, and works a lot a lot of counter punching,
also you can see trainers from different countries holding pads different often....
Most of the greatest fighters ever never even worked on the pads.
And I'm sure I've met trainers who are only experts on the pads, and out of their depth when it comes to instructing a boxer against another boxer.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: did angelo dundee know how to box????

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
I boxed for Angie's 5th St. Amateur team in the mid '50s, 'n I'd had countless great trainers since the early '40s at Stillman's in N.Y., 'n Ang was terrific. He was terrific because he knew instinctively how to get the best from each fighter. He didn't do it by the numbers and cheer lead.

We'da followed him barefoot over broken glass.

We not only wanted to win but we wanted to win for him. The trips back to Miami after a team win are still euphoric memories. Our team was tight.

Not only was he able to look after Cassius Clay, Pastrano and all the first-rate talent coming from Cuba, he was hands on with his amateur team (knew all our names) pointing out everything we needed to fix 'n how to do it.

He was like a great jockey that knew how ta guide us down the home stretch, with just a touch on the shoulder or a look in the eye, like Whitey Bimstein or Freddie Brown.

He didn't grandstand elaborate instructions between rounds for TV or gym rats to analyze. Sure, he exhorted a fighter, but his real instruction might have been a touch on the right shoulder, meaning it was finally time to throw the lead right to the body.

When it worked, and the man caved, It was like hitting LOTTO.

So for me Angie was a terrific trainer, not a cheerleader or a towel carrier left to have his between rounds advice second guessed by websters who wanna hear it communicated the way they wanna hear it.

Great post.

I laugh at some of the self-appointed internet experts who believe they can rate trainers and second guess them.
I've probably been guilty of some of it myself though.
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