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Old 11-17-2012, 04:28 AM   #181
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Wlad would do Vitali dirty, and Vitali even privately agrees.

Vitali's style is predicated on three things, you understand: Range, containing his opponents, and his ability to angle any shot. He pokes and prods with his left as often as he throws a real jab, to disguise his right hand and the cover steps to his left, he leans straight back to dodge punches, because it incentivizes an opponent to keep coming, which allows him to respond with right hands or a left hook from the hip that they bear into, and he holds himself.

Wlad is faster of hand and foot, he has the far superior left jab, and he tees up with his right hand. Vitali wouldn't be able to lean out of the way; See the Wach fight, Wlad would land time and again. Vitali wouldn't be able to contain Wlad; His little brother is his physical match in the clinch, and while not as tough, is just as, if not more, dogged. We called him the octopus only half to rile him up, he's literally next to impossible to shake. Wlad's height and command of his own range would make Vitali's favored angles and his up and down way of accessing them utterly ineffective. Can't throw the hookercut, can't circle the right hand(Wlad would come over with a left hook, and used to do it in sparring so often when they were kids Vitali had a nickname for it), and wouldn't have a clear shot at the counter left hooks he loves.

So, basically, outboxing and overpowering Wlad is right out. He'd lose a stand-up scratch and peck boxing match just off of being the slower, inferior fundamentalist alone. His only approach left would be to "march forward" and fight Wlad; This romantic notion held by boxing fans that tough chinned, big hearted fighters can just decide to shrug off punishment and march forward, come hell or high water, to brawl on the inside or near mid-range, by God.

Thing is, Vitali has never been a fighter; He can be aggressive, but he's too awkward and his linear footwork sucks for a big man. In the Corrie Sanders fight, he eventually settled into doling out an ass beating because he realized his optimal range, he found a way to stay in it, and he just punched until the referee waved his arms. When he tried to come forward and attack, Sanders was drilling him very, very hard, wobbling him, and forcing him backwards. Vitali might be able to bring the action, but he can't brawl; His shoddy advances would be entirely neutralized by his brothers jab.

This is my estimation, honestly. I can't say much else, beyond giving credit where it is do and affirming that both brothers treated me very roughly. Two worst ass kickings of my life, I would estimate. Vitali is a badass, and one of the most underrated rubix cubes in all of boxing, that style is so awkward and their is no rhythm, and his timing is seriously otherwordly. Wlad is just the whole package, though. In that way, he is Lennox Lewis' true succesor, in my book.

Singing the praises of fighters who are a lot better than I am is hard, understand. Pride is involved. But the K Bros are class acts, just like Lennox Lewis was, and if they can treat me with honor, respect, and deference I'm not sure I earned from them in the ring, then by God, I'm gonna be honest about how badass I think they all are.
Thanks Magna. A great read, as always.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:46 AM   #182
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Mendoza you and I are in agreement about Wlad. In fact, I think I rate Wladimir higher than you do. But when it comes to Vitali, we are in total disagreement. I rate Wlad above Vitali. I also strongly think Vitali absolutely needs to fight one legitimate top 5 contender before he retires. He cannot go out with a win over manuel charr. That would be less than appetizing.

Both are in my top 12 now.

If you were to ask Purity, Sanders or Peter who was better, they would say Vitali. In fact Byrd said Vitali was better, and he was fighting an injured Vitali.

I suggest you watch the Klitschko documentary. Honestly itís a good documentary beyond boxing. HBO aired it a few weeks ago.

A few excerpts, as you can gain insight to a fighter on how they speak, and how others speak about them.

Wlad, ď Vitali was born a fighter. I had to become one. ď

Boxing coach. Vitali was like a rock. Wlad was like clay, he was easier to mold, but also wore down quickly.

Vitaliís wife. When Vitali sets his mind to something, he does it. Wlad is more cautious and diplomatic.

What do all the above quotes mean? In a sterile environment when things go well, Wlad is better. However I do believe a good chin is paramount in the heavyweight division, and here the comparison is not close. I also believe, Vitali has better nerves for the game, can body punch or uppercut ( things Wlad seldom does ), and has won a higher percentage of rounds meaning, heís the harder one to out box.

I would like to see Vitali vs. Haye, but Haye has already backed out of the fight once. If Haye won't sign, then Vitali vs. Pulev, Boystov, or Povetkin will suffice.

Last edited by Mendoza; 11-17-2012 at 05:47 AM. Reason: more info added
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:56 AM   #183
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Wlad would do Vitali dirty, and Vitali even privately agrees.

Vitali's style is predicated on three things, you understand: Range, containing his opponents, and his ability to angle any shot. He pokes and prods with his left as often as he throws a real jab, to disguise his right hand and the cover steps to his left, he leans straight back to dodge punches, because it incentivizes an opponent to keep coming, which allows him to respond with right hands or a left hook from the hip that they bear into, and he holds himself.

Wlad is faster of hand and foot, he has the far superior left jab, and he tees up with his right hand. Vitali wouldn't be able to lean out of the way; See the Wach fight, Wlad would land time and again. Vitali wouldn't be able to contain Wlad; His little brother is his physical match in the clinch, and while not as tough, is just as, if not more, dogged. We called him the octopus only half to rile him up, he's literally next to impossible to shake. Wlad's height and command of his own range would make Vitali's favored angles and his up and down way of accessing them utterly ineffective. Can't throw the hookercut, can't circle the right hand(Wlad would come over with a left hook, and used to do it in sparring so often when they were kids Vitali had a nickname for it), and wouldn't have a clear shot at the counter left hooks he loves.

So, basically, outboxing and overpowering Wlad is right out. He'd lose a stand-up scratch and peck boxing match just off of being the slower, inferior fundamentalist alone. His only approach left would be to "march forward" and fight Wlad; This romantic notion held by boxing fans that tough chinned, big hearted fighters can just decide to shrug off punishment and march forward, come hell or high water, to brawl on the inside or near mid-range, by God.

Thing is, Vitali has never been a fighter; He can be aggressive, but he's too awkward and his linear footwork sucks for a big man. In the Corrie Sanders fight, he eventually settled into doling out an ass beating because he realized his optimal range, he found a way to stay in it, and he just punched until the referee waved his arms. When he tried to come forward and attack, Sanders was drilling him very, very hard, wobbling him, and forcing him backwards. Vitali might be able to bring the action, but he can't brawl; His shoddy advances would be entirely neutralized by his brothers jab.

This is my estimation, honestly. I can't say much else, beyond giving credit where it is do and affirming that both brothers treated me very roughly. Two worst ass kickings of my life, I would estimate. Vitali is a badass, and one of the most underrated rubix cubes in all of boxing, that style is so awkward and their is no rhythm, and his timing is seriously otherwordly. Wlad is just the whole package, though. In that way, he is Lennox Lewis' true succesor, in my book.

Singing the praises of fighters who are a lot better than I am is hard, understand. Pride is involved. But the K Bros are class acts, just like Lennox Lewis was, and if they can treat me with honor, respect, and deference I'm not sure I earned from them in the ring, then by God, I'm gonna be honest about how badass I think they all are.

Great post. I disagree. Universum who had them both said Vitlai was better. Most hard core fans of both of them, think Vitlai is better as well. How would a real fight between the two of them?



Wlad is a tempo figher, and needs to be in his groove to be at his best. Vitlai does not. He can be effective at close, medium or long range, and work the body. Vitali has superior head movement, counters better, and I think his arms are a little longer. He's also the mentally tougher of the two, and has the better chin by a country mile.



If is very unlikely that Wlad can win early, however Vitali can. Do you really think Wlad could take Vitali's shots over the course of a fight? Neither do I.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:59 AM   #184
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

vitali, if you base on what he's done in the ring against the opponents he's fought is actually levels behind wlad.

Maybe in some make believe world he's harder to beat but the reality is his best years were spent injured whilst wlads best years where spent as the best hw in the world.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:08 AM   #185
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

Also, in terms of this 1v2 you seek. When wlad beat iggy the top 3 where clearly wlad, iggy and Peter. Wlad had already beaten Peter and he then defeated iggy. That was all before vitali came back as well.

I just don't see how anyone can refute his championship claims. The one man you list as his main contender doesn't contend his status.

I like your system but I just can't see how wlad is anything other than champion.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:10 AM   #186
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Manny did for Wlad what he did for Lewis -he revamped his whole style around two things -his size, and his dentable chin.
Of course Wlad uses his size to win fights, the way Ali used his speed, Foreman his power and so on. It's a natural attribute, and it would be silly not to use it to the best of your ability. But he's always used it. What Steward did wasn't a revamping, so much as a focusing, on a few key moves, a curbing of Wlad's more impulsive tendencies.

Before Steward, Wlad was an incredible offensive machine. He had that same great jab and pinpoint knockout power, but allied it to fluid and devastating combination punching as well. Clinched a lot less too, and relied on a Foreman style push off to maintain his distance. In many ways, and certainly from a skills POV, he was a far more complete fighter than the current iteration. More entertaining too. But there was always that danger of him punching himself out, as he did against Purrity and Brewster, who were resilient enough not to crumble when he put the heat on them.

Steward forced Wlad to limit his offensive output, focus more on maintaining his distance via his jab, and approach each fight with a more long term view. Instead of bombing guys out, he made Wlad work on breaking them down instead with low risk moves that would limit his opponents' counter punching opportunities. That's partly where Wlad's height and reach became a more pronounced attribute, though like I've said he's always used it in one form or the other.

One criticism I'll mention is that I think they went a bit too far with the whole process. Who was "to blame" and what their reasons were for doing so I don't know, but I don't think there was quite that need to fight so cautiously.* Of course, following the Brewster loss, and the subsequent Peter fight, there was a massive concern over Wlad's chin and mental state. For many fights afterwards there was huge concern that it would all unravel again.

Only now has Wlad begun to recover some of that swagger, and begin to open up a lot more. Nonetheless, lack of use has atrophied that element of his game, and the combinations he used to put away Peter and nearly put away Wach were noticeably lacking in sharpness and fluidity of the same man who destroyed Mercer and Shufford. But my point is that the skills are still there. Wlad's a limited fighter by design, not by lack of ability.

*Ok, I concede, perhaps that was a revamping!

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Futch was a master trainer and if he got a hold of a fighter the way he got a hold of Bowe, for however long Bowe listened, he could be counted on to inject serious technical skill into his charge. Bowe had a skill set you almost never see among the giants. Now, you and Seamus can criticize when he used particularly skill sets (inside on Holyfield, etc) and his mistakes, and his strategy, and very rightfully his horrible diet and slothfulness, but to say that Wlad at his best is more of a technician than Bowe was at his best is questionable.
Having skills and being a technician are different things.

Bowe possessed the type of skills you don't normally see in a big man, notably very good infighting abilities, but he never had the brain to put all those skills to use in their best possible way for any prolonged length of time. He always struck me as a brawler in a boxer's body. His love of getting on the inside of his opponents, his crouching, bobbing and weaving, throwing looping shots like overhand rights on the outside, these are the sorts of things you normally see in shorter fighters, which is why he's so atypical of a big man.

Against a fighter in Golota, who knew how to fight like a big man, his deficiencies were exposed. He was unable to match jabs with Golota and found it difficult to close distance when he realised this. Golota's own deficiencies allowed Bowe to get into the fight both times, but it was no display of sublime technical skill on display that night, from Bowe at least.

Even against Evander I, his consensus best performance, he was taking major punishment; he should never have allowed Evander to get that into the fight in the first place, had he used his height in the way a big man ideally should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
As to Primo Carnera, I think you underestimate his skill set.
Carnera, I agree, was a bit better than people make him out to be. But he was still, ultimately, an acromegalic giant like Valuev, a man whom pituitary gigantism made large, and not the natural process of his genes. Such men are always physically flawed in some way, and can never achieve the sort of athleticism that a regular fighter can.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:13 AM   #187
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
When I first saw Andrew Golota working out in the gym, it was in the closing stages of his camp for the Bowe REMATCH.

I was in awe. He was the best heavyweight I've ever seen. I went home almost shaken; Convinced that his first performance against Bowe was that fight every hothead young prospect needed to eventually bloom. I thought he'd have Riddick in three, and go on to the heavyweight title.

Watching Bowe II, I realized that he was as good as he looked, but his mental shortcomings were a plague, not immaturity. I predicted Lewis would manhandle him. I didn't quite expect a 70 second annihilation, but I wasn't surprised.

Thanks again, to go off tangent a bit in this thread. I never believed in Golota was the next big thing. What a fighter can do in the gym, and what he does in the ring on fight night can be night and day.



In Golota's case, credit him first as an athletic big man who could fight. However he did not hit as hard enough to make up for short comings in mental fortitude ( like Tyson or Liston could ), and his chin was really only average as well. He was actually on the verge of quitting in the second Bowe fight, and had to be urged in by his corner. Fighters who bite, foul, head butt, throw intentional low blows ( all things Andrew did ), to me are the ones who fold when the going gets tough.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:15 AM   #188
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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How the hell is what he wrote 'great reads'
Ya Wladimir who have shown zero evidence that he could be a brawler, who leaves his hands so low that any semi decent Counter Puncher would have caught him, who have literally no inside fighting skills is going to beat 'every heavyweight of the 90's outside of maybe Lewis because some sparring partner of his decided to praise him a little?

Just because this guy can write in a eloquent and believable manner don't mean jack shit.

His subtle hints that Wlad is 'better than Lewis' and all sorts of subliminal ****ing messages is annoying as hell.

Lennox Lewis Ko any version of Wladimir, Lewis Tko or UD any version of Vitali or any variation,combination, FUSION version of either brother.


Wladmir clinches you in a grip and does nothing to you on the inside, Lennox clinches you and holds you but is also damaging you via body shots and upper cuts. Wladimir is one of the most flawed ATG HW's ever.

I can't believe the ****ing audacity of you people on here, taking some random sparring partner's words that Wlad is this Wlad is that.

The best version of Andrew Golota who Lewis KOed in 45 seconds would have destroyed everybody on Wladimir's resume. Hands down.

Think about that for a second, 'classic people'.

Let me repeat this .

The best version of Golota would have beaten everybody on Wlad's resume.



****. I can't believe this shit. You guys taking the words of this magnasagna or whatever his name is.

He's the same guy who said Wlad in 2003 would have beaten 2003 Lennox. The same Wlad who was knocked out a few years back by Purrity, the same Wlad who was buried by a golfer, and the same Wlad who 2 YEARS LATER went on to get KNOCKED OUT again by Brewster.

Jesus Christ.

I'm glad I'm always banned. Reading this sort of retardation makes me appreciate the 'scene' more.

Also for your information, it's impossible to be not bias and fair.

This magna dude might just like Wlad more. Maybe he was a sparring partner for Bowe and Bowe treated him bad, hurt his feelings. Wlad is 10x nicer. So suddenly Wlad gets more of his praise.

Don't even bullshit me about 'no bias'. He's bias as ****, you can literally see this shit from every post he writes.

The only difference between this Magna dude and a normal Klittard is that he's more intelligent and is able to trick more people with his articulation and writing abilities.


Oh .

tko6. mother****ers.


Well, somebodies mad.

If you think I'm articulate, boyo, you hang with some stupid folks. Stick around. You might learn something.

TKO6 indeed.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:23 AM   #189
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

Hmmm. Who benefits the forum more? A troll named Felix or a man who's mixed with the best heavyweights of the past two decades and is gracious enough to share insight?

No contest whatsoever, mcg ban this fool.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:28 AM   #190
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in heavyweight boxi

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Thanks again, to go off tangent a bit in this thread. I never believed in Golota was the next big thing. What a fighter can do in the gym, and what he does in the ring on fight night can be night and day.



In Golota's case, credit him first as an athletic big man who could fight. However he did not hit as hard enough to make up for short comings in mental fortitude ( like Tyson or Liston could ), and his chin was really only average as well. He was actually on the verge of quitting in the second Bowe fight, and had to be urged in by his corner. Fighters who bite, foul, head butt, throw intentional low blows ( all things Andrew did ), to me are the ones who fold when the going gets tough.
To be honest with you, I hadn't seen a single fight of his but the first Bowe tussle, and what I saw in the gym. I wasn't catching everything televised back then, and was between friends with massive film libraries. In the Bowe fight, and in the gym, he looked like a monster; As a pro, I can tell you, while gym work ain't everything, it's a pretty good indication. Rarely is a guy a straight badass in private and nothing at all in the ring. At least in my experience, admittedly singular in perspective.

Looking at YouTube and all the footage, I can see your assessment, completely. And you are, generally, right on; Fouls in bunches either mean mind games, or they mean a guy who can't control himself in the ring. Talking to Andrew back then for five seconds clued you in that he wasn't that crafty.

Still, wouldn't have wanted to fight him. That last combination speedbagging Riddick's balls, ouch. Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, sure as hell wouldn't sign on for it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:28 AM   #191
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

Felix is right.
Magnanassaki IS surprisingly articulate, considering that I've thus far narrowed down his real identity to be either Lionel Butler or Tommy Morrison.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:29 AM   #192
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

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Hmmm. Who benefits the forum more? A troll named Felix or a man who's mixed with the best heavyweights of the past two decades and is gracious enough to share insight?

No contest whatsoever, mcg ban this fool.
Has he broken the rules? Let him gab.

He's a young pup. He'll either wash out, or back up his talk. His future in the sport is his business. Til he does something against the forum rules, he's got as much right to be here as us.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:36 AM   #193
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

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I'm 18 years old and a AM HW boxer.
I just started my career, his career is finished.

I'm banned already ****ing idiot.

The difference between you guys and me when reading this guy's posts is that I'm actually a AM Prospect boxer and you guys are keyboard warriors.

I can tell his bullshit you guys can't. What he wrote makes literally no sense because I sparred a lot as well.

He's a 6'4 fighter who fought in the 90's? My uncle fought in the 90's. He can literally list every single 6'4 fighter that fought in the top 100 in the 90's and he can correlate this guy's posts.

Go down the list of Lewis victims- connect it to Wlad. It's quite easy to find out who he is .

Not impressed one bit.

I'm the new blood, he's finished. Wlad is soon finished. Enjoy the classics keyboard warriors and 40 year old ****s.
Oh you're the guy who predicted wlad would be sparked by wach. You hyped wach up so much I am convinced you were a closet wlad fan.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #194
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Has he broken the rules? Let him gab.

He's a young pup. He'll either wash out, or back up his talk. His future in the sport is his business. Til he does something against the forum rules, he's got as much right to be here as us.
True. Can't ban someone for being annoying.

Just put him on your ignore list, if you don't wish to read his posts.

That's what I've done.

EDIT: Can ban him for being abusive, however, which is what he's being.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:45 AM   #195
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko now holds the record for the longest reign in HW boxing histor

He usually doesn't act this way.

Just an -extremely- passionate Lennox Lewis fanatic.
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