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Old 11-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

In the post-fight interview Ali didn't even know what to say when he was asked "what punch did you hit him with?", he was stumped for words. I think his first guess was a left hook.
You can hear him shouting at his entourage "don't say nothing ! don't say nothing !" (meaning don't say anything.)
Immediately post-fight this is.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:08 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Article by Sports Illustrated writer from ringside...

Muhammad Ali, born Cassius Clay, retained the heavyweight championship of the world by knocking out Sonny Liston with a perfectly valid, stunning right-hand punch to the side of the head (page 4, and he won without benefit of a fix.

Although it is impossible ever to discount the possibility of a fix because of boxing's still-too-intimate connection with the underworld, there is no shred of evidence or plausibility to support the suggestion that this was anything but an honest fight, as was the previous Clay-Liston fight in Miami Beach. Today the big money is in television—not betting.

The knockout punch itself was thrown with the amazing speed that differentiates Clay from any other heavyweight. He leaned away from one of Liston's ponderous, pawing left jabs, planted his left foot solidly and whipped his right hand over Liston's left arm and into the side of Liston's jaw. The blow had so much force it lifted Liston's left foot, upon which most of his weight was resting, well off the canvas. It was also powerful enough to drop him instantly—first to his hands and knees and then over on his back. More than 17 seconds elapsed before Liston could flounder to his feet, still only partly conscious. Even some 30 seconds later, when Jersey Joe Walcott, the referee, finally stopped the fight after a wild flurry of inaccurate punches by the almost-hysterical Clay, Liston was staggering drunkenly and had to be led to his corner by Trainer Willie Reddish.

The knockout punch was only the third that the champion landed, but all of his blows were significant ones. He opened the fight by rushing across the ring and banging the surprised Liston with a hard right cross. Then, about 30 seconds before the end, he hit Liston with another strong right (see cover) that may have started Sonny's downfall.

"That shot shivered Liston," said Trainer Chicky Ferrara, who had been placed in Liston's corner by Manager Angelo Dundee to guard against a recurrence of the eye burning that had left Clay semiblind in the fifth round in Miami Beach. "He blinked his eyes three times, like he was trying to clear his head, and I looked at Willie Reddish. I could see Reddish looked sick because he knew his fighter was in trouble."

For the few qualified observers who had a clear view of the knockout punch, there was no doubt about its power. Immediately after it landed, Floyd Patterson, seated at ringside in the most advantageous position to see the blow, said, in answer to a direct question: "It was a perfect right hand." Jos� Torres, the light heavyweight champion, agreed. "A very strong right hand," he said. Indeed, for all those who had a good view of the punch—and, unfortunately, there could not have been more than 1,200—there was never any doubt as to the stunning power of the blow. it was perfectly delivered against an opponent who was moving toward it, so that the effect was of a head-on collision.
A misleading article.
Several people who saw the punch said it had no power on it.
For example, George Chuvalo called it a "light tap".
Jimmy Cannon said "I saw the punch that had Liston floundering on the canvas. I can tell you that it wouldn't have crushed a grape".
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:19 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
In the post-fight interview Ali didn't even know what to say when he was asked "what punch did you hit him with?", he was stumped for words. I think his first guess was a left hook.
You can hear him shouting at his entourage "don't say nothing ! don't say nothing !" (meaning don't say anything.)
Immediately post-fight this is.

I saw that. He said something like- it was a left hook...er....maybe a right cross....I'll have to look at the films. Do you have one I can see?
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

yeah, that's exactly what he said.


The full fight broadcast here, complete with introductions and post-fight interview with Ali :

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8DR0P0PV5c[/ame]
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:00 PM   #35
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

Once again your all insane..insane Ali haters. Look in any record book....it will say Ali won ...KO 1. THATS the official verdict of a fight that was completely investigated in the months after it occurred and the result was NO EVIDENCE OF A FIX. Now get on with your petty lives already.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

Forget about the 'Phantom Punch' or the 'Fight'

Sonny Liston arrived in Dedham, Massachusetts on May 2nd, and Cassus Clay arrived
on May 4th, for their May 25th 'Dance at the Boston Garden'.

Thursday May 6th, just after '12:00 'Noon'. Suffolk County, Massachusetts District Attorney
- Garrett H. Byrne throws an 'injunction' on that fight, faster than a Sandy Koufax fastball.

Garrett H. Byrne, 'I'm not having 17,000 fans in the Boston Garden tear the place apart
after what I just found out. Let them take that fight to some desperate mill town
in Maine.'
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

ali was saying to liston get up you good for nothing bum ya aint gonna quit on me a 2nd time! ali was fuming cuz he knew liston wanted to quit once he hit the floor.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

Fight was investigated by the NY state boxing commission in the months after. Ali, Liston, Walcott and all parties involved were called in and interviewed. The official report found NO EVIDENCE OF A FIX. Years after a technical analysis was completed examining the fight film frame by frame......conclusion was that the KO was legit...Ali caught Liston as he was stepping forward with a punch he did not see coming. Major evidence and this was also seen by the Sports Illustrated writer I quoted previously was that Listons lead foot, the foot he was stepping forward onto was lifted off the canvas by the force of the blow. Now unless you have an OFFICIAL investigation that shows the fight was fixed to counter the OFFICIAL investigation that was completed that showed NO FIX the debate is OVER.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:24 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by groove View Post
ali was saying to liston get up you good for nothing bum ya aint gonna quit on me a 2nd time! ali was fuming cuz he knew liston wanted to quit once he hit the floor.
I don't think Ali was in on this fix. He seemed too surprised by Liston's dive. He didn't really need to know about it. All he had to do was breath hard and Liston would have went down.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

can anyone prove claims of a fix? Proof that would hold up in court and remove all reasonable doubt.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #41
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by groove View Post
ali was saying to liston get up you good for nothing bum ya aint gonna quit on me a 2nd time! ali was fuming cuz he knew liston wanted to quit once he hit the floor.
In other words, Ali knew he'd landed a light blow. If Ali was disgusted as soon as Liston hit the floor then he can't have rated the punch that he landed as much of a blow.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:32 PM   #42
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

An official and unofficial investigation revealed NO EVIDENCE OF A FIX. So all you people stop dreaming up imaginary scenarios and look at facts. NY State boxing commission found NO EVIDENCE OF A FIX. Listons lead foot was lifted off the canvas by the force of Alis blow. Its the same foot he was stepping forward with as he was hit. One heck of a "phantom" punch huh?
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
can anyone prove claims of a fix? Proof that would hold up in court and remove all reasonable doubt.
If anyone believes that Cassius Clay could not only 'floor' Sonny Liston with
that right hand, but have him 'flopping' for about 17-seconds on the canvas,,,,,,,,

Does anybody really believe that.

Oh, there was a punch that landed, and Sonny did go down. But that's
about it.

Jersey Joe Walcott thought that Sonny tripped.

And, UPI Photographer (Donald Robinson) who was right there at ringside
where the punch landed, heard absolutely 'no sound'.

And the 2434 fans in St. Dominic's Arena immediately cried 'Fake, Fake, Fake'.

I guess they were all fooled by the 'Anchor Punch'.

JESUS CHRIST



Question; If Sonny Liston won, just what would have happened next ?

Be careful how you answer, unless you know what you are talking about...

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 11-17-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #44
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
If anyone believes that Cassius Clay could not only 'floor' Sonny Liston with
that right hand, but have him 'flopping' for about 17-seconds on the canvas,,,,,,,,

Does anybody really believe that.

Oh, there was a punch that landed, and Sonny did go down. But that's
about it.

Jersey Joe Walcott thought that Sonny tripped.

And, UPI Photographer (Donald Robinson) who was right there at ringside
where the punch landed, heard absolutely 'no sound'.

Question; If Sonny Liston won, just what would have happened next ?

I don't think anyone seriously believes it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

It doesn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the fight was a fix.

All you have is that you don't think the punch would have floored him legitimately. Well unless you can prove the fix you have to accept the truth.
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