Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by RockyJim

Been watching since 1964!!!

No offence mate, but for someone who's been watching the sport since 1964 you should be able to come up with something better than this:

Originally Posted by RockyJim

Wlad's chin vs.the "Suzie Q?"...if Ross and Corrie and Brewster can land...

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by he grant

An absolutely ridiculous match up ... Wlad stops him in two rounds ... people forget what a devastating puncher Wlad is .. w Rocky at such a size disadvantage I cannot imagine him taking too many of Wlad's bombs ... it's a crazy match up

Is that why Haye who nearly got KO'd by an ex-middle managed to go the distance?

Marciano is a better fighter than Haye, more awkward, harder to hit, way more heart, much better chin, much harder puncher with a workrate and stamina that would any of todays heavyweights blush. Even an old Mormeck who was chinny and never particularly good went 4 rounds but somehow Marciano is gonna get taken out in 2? Fuuuuuarrrrkkkkk offff.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by rusak

One of the best one punch knockout artists ever doesn't just turn into a volume puncher. Doesn't happen.

He never lost power it was just that Goldman changed his style made him shorten his punches but throw more of them in order to break down fighters and ruin them.

I think this fight would play out like most Wlad fights: Wlad constantly throwing jabs, jab, jab, hard jab, right cross, hold and lean and repeat. Of course Wlad would be punching down with all of his weight making his punches land with more authority and against someone who is 60 lbs lighter granite chin or no it's gonna be making an impact. Of course Marciano isn't an easy target he'll be leaning back to the right with his hands crossed over to negate straight punches and would bob and weave and explode up with 2-4 hard punches, most of them would be landing on Wlad's arms, hips and stomach. I think any time Marciano lands a good shot that rocks Wlad he will hold and lean to tire out Marciano and constantly try to spoil. Marciano will fight very galantly but will ultimately lose. Probably. Maybe.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Those PSI tests are entirely bogus. Sorry. Rocky was an attrition puncher against his best foes. Or you would like to convince me that Don Cockell absorbed 5 billions PSI in their bout...

Marciano has more one or two-punch KOs against ranked contenders than the vast majority of heavyweight champions. Rex Layne, Walcott (2x) and Matthews. You may think "only four?", but it's very high number: Tyson has The Truth, Frans Botha and Tubbs. Lewis has one: Rahman. Foreman has one: Moorer. Frazier has none, Dempsey has none that I know of, Wlad has Chambers, and Thompson (arguably Brock and Austin as well).

Bottomline: it's very hard to stop rated opponents, let alone with one or two punches. During his last fights, Marciano was more of a grind-you-down fighter who doubled his output compared to the Walcott fight. But both in terms of stopping ranked opponents and scoring one punch KOs over ranked opponents, Rocky's name is at or near the top of the list.

[HOUDINI]

If Marciano hit Wlad cleanly, and he would, the fights over. Chins don't get better over time and neither does courage. look what a nothing in Purity did to him. All three ko losses Wlad just does not get knocked out...he goes down in sections and collapses all over the ring. Not what one should see in a great fighter because quite obviously he is not.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

If Marciano hit Wlad cleanly, and he would, the fights over. Chins don't get better over time and neither does courage. look what a nothing in Purity did to him. All three ko losses Wlad just does not get knocked out...he goes down in sections and collapses all over the ring. Not what one should see in a great fighter because quite obviously he is not.

you've used this argument consistently but i'm afraid i just don't see it. if wlad had retired after brewster, sure. but he changed, improved and is now one of the greatest heavyweight champions ever. he's crept into my top 10 and fights are decided in the ring, based on multiple factors. not just chins

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

Marciano has more one or two-punch KOs against ranked contenders than the vast majority of heavyweight champions. Rex Layne, Walcott (2x) and Matthews. You may think "only four?", but it's very high number: Tyson has The Truth, Frans Botha and Tubbs. Lewis has one: Rahman. Foreman has one: Moorer. Frazier has none, Dempsey has none that I know of, Wlad has Chambers, and Thompson (arguably Brock and Austin as well).

Bottomline: it's very hard to stop rated opponents, let alone with one or two punches. During his last fights, Marciano was more of a grind-you-down fighter who doubled his output compared to the Walcott fight. But both in terms of stopping ranked opponents and scoring one punch KOs over ranked opponents, Rocky's name is at or near the top of the list.

Interesting stuff.

[Absolutely!]

I must say, there's been some horribly simplistic arguments from the Marciano supporters in this thread. Just the same sort of repetitive stuff you can hear from any two-bit Haye fan. Quite disappointing really.

Kudos to Ted Spoon, at least. Interesting post.

[madballster]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

In a real tough fight he more than likely will lose. Greatness is spelled out during tough times not when slapping around tomato cans.

Then why didn't he lose vs. Peter I? Arguably that was a tough fight for him, he could have just given up. But he didn't.

You don't think Wlad was facing tough times after he has been slapped around by Sanders and Brewster. Imagine the humiliation, the pain.

Coming back from that is more than tough. It takes brass balls and tons of heart. Going through that and reinventing yourself is true greatness.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Interesting stuff.

it is. but i don't know if holding ranked contenders as the ideal is indicative of true power. some fighters, regardless of rank, are simply hard to knock out. chins, styles, the texture of the fights themselves contribute to whether or not the knockout comes.

joe louis, maybe the greatest puncher and finisher ever, destroyed max schmeling in one but couldn't find the target against tommy farr over 15. doesn't mean farr was better. it means that on that night, he was much harder to knockout.

[madballster]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

I must say, there's been some horribly simplistic arguments from the Marciano supporters in this thread. Just the same sort of repetitive stuff you can hear from any two-bit Haye fan. Quite disappointing really.

Kudos to Ted Spoon, at least. Interesting post.

It's always the same shit: "One only has to find Wlad's chin once, then it's game over". I'm hearing the same shit now for 8 years. It's getting quite ridiculous.

I want to ask the Marciano fans something - without pissing on your man: How many punches will Rocky have to take each time he tries to land that one knockout punch of his own?

When you guys quote how Brewster and Purrity "easily" beat Wlad, did you see the incredible bombs these guys have taken in the process? Brewster was down for the count, and got up, then knocked out Wlad.

If Marciano wanted to knock out Wlad he better be able to handle Wlad throwing the kitchen sink at his own chin, multiple times. How'd a 185 lbs Marciano react if he absorbed just a fraction of that punishment? Tell me.

[lufcrazy]

Rocky wouldn't even be a heavyweight today.

He'd start off as a big lhw or a small cw. Maybe over time he could bulk up but any advantages he might have had he'd surely lose. Tiny frame and in reality this fight would never be sanctioned.

If he came boring in to get inside he'd get sparked out. If he tries staying on the outside he gets dominated behind the jab. He has very little chance of victory considering his size and reach.

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by madballster

It's always the same shit: "One only has to find Wlad's chin once, then it's game over". I'm hearing the same shit now for 8 years. It's getting quite ridiculous.

I want to ask the Marciano fans something - without pissing on your man: How many punches will Rocky have to take each time he tries to land that one knockout punch of his own?

When you guys quote how Brewster and Purrity "easily" beat Wlad, did you see the incredible bombs these guys have taken in the process? Brewster was down for the count, and got up, then knocked out Wlad.

If Marciano wanted to knock out Wlad he better be able to handle Wlad throwing the kitchen sink at his own chin, multiple times. How'd a 185 lbs Marciano react if he absorbed just a fraction of that punishment? Tell me.

I am a huge Marciano and Wlad fan so how should I reply?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

I am a huge Marciano and Wlad fan so how should I reply?

Logically.

[HOUDINI]

Quite simple great fighters don't have ko losses like Wlad has times 3. He can't take a punch, punishment. Nor does he exhibit all time great fighting skills. It's jab right hand, jab right hand all encased in that typical European straight up style. Can't block, can't slip, can't feint. Since he does not have great defensive skills you don't see counters off blocks or slips. Marciano was deceptively hard to hit. Walcott thought he would hit Rocky at will but once in the ring it was not to be the case. Marciano was cute in there...lots of weaving and rolling with shots and that crouch allowed punches to be ducked quite effectively. Marciano unlike the stiffs Wlad has faced would be weaving under that jab..he would not be the open target being imagined here. The shot to hit Wlad with is a right hand since he fights straight up with his chin out and left hand down. Rocky had one of the best right hands in boxing history.