Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-18-2012, 04:45 PM   #1
anj
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: good
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 300
Default Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFFDe9FQL3s&feature=g-vrec[/ame]

It was by no means a big hit whatsoever. Folley seemed to be knocked out cold. Then gets up and starts stumbling around. That's not a typical behaviour of a boxer who is knocked cold (watching fights we can see this). He was rolling around but it looked pretty mindful and calculated.

KO is from 9:09 onwards.

Liston seemingly took the fall as well.

Did any others take the fall against Ali?

I don't really want responses from people who are hell bent on hating on Ali. Ali number 2 P4P, take that suckers.
anj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #2
red cobra
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Sea of Tranquility
Posts: 13,191
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

I just don't think Folley had much of a chin...he was a patsy for Ali. I think Eddie Machen would have given Clay a much better fight. He was ballsier, could move better and had a better chin than Folley.
red cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:20 PM   #3
ron u.k.
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 2,464
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It was by no means a big hit whatsoever. Folley seemed to be knocked out cold. Then gets up and starts stumbling around. That's not a typical behaviour of a boxer who is knocked cold (watching fights we can see this). He was rolling around but it looked pretty mindful and calculated.

KO is from 9:09 onwards.

Liston seemingly took the fall as well.

Did any others take the fall against Ali?

I don't really want responses from people who are hell bent on hating on Ali. Ali number 2 P4P, take that suckers.
Are you Pepe in disguise?
ron u.k. is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:32 PM   #4
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
I just don't think Folley had much of a chin...he was a patsy for Ali. I think Eddie Machen would have given Clay a much better fight. He was ballsier, could move better and had a better chin than Folley.
Machen was a tricky fighter man just a smooth operator. I actually might watch him take on Liston now, haven't seen that one in a while

Folley knew his stuff but yeah like you said he was never durable and as long as you didnt let him control you with the jab you could take him. Folleys jab to the body in the Ali fight was smart though and it bought him some time.

No it wasn't a dive.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #5
red cobra
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Sea of Tranquility
Posts: 13,191
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
Machen was a tricky fighter man just a smooth operator. I actually might watch him take on Liston now, haven't seen that one in a while

Folley knew his stuff but yeah like you said he was never durable and as long as you didnt let him control you with the jab you could take him. Folleys jab to the body in the Ali fight was smart though and it bought him some time.

No it wasn't a dive.
Finally, somebody who agrees with me on Machen... he had more imagination than folley. he didn't roll oiver and die vs Liston..he didn't win, but he had no fear of Sonny. He taunted Liston till the end. machen really won my respect in that fight.
red cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:48 PM   #6
BillB
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 798
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Ali and Folley were good friends before and after the fight.

Ali was quoted as saying Folley needed money and he wanted to give him a payday.

Dive- No clue- it looked like it, but who knows.
BillB is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 09:33 PM   #7
The Funny Man 7
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: here (duh!)
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 1326
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Folley's life and career was punctuated with episodes of strange behavior. The people around him attested that Zora was very, very odd, maybe even genuinely mentally ill, like Machen.

Do I think the fix was in? No. I just think Ali was in brilliant form, he beat the brakes of Folley who unraveled and suddenly thought, 'okay, that's enough' and he was stayed down when Ali dropped him.
The Funny Man 7 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:16 PM   #8
leverage
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 677
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

I doubt that folley even saw that right hand because it was so fast. When a boxer sees a punch coming , his body tenses up so that if the punch did land, he could better absorb it.

Folley really didn't have a chance not only because of the speed of the punch but because of the angle tha it was thrown from. This is what made ali's punches so effective.
leverage is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:18 AM   #9
young griffo
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leverage View Post
I doubt that folley even saw that right hand because it was so fast. When a boxer sees a punch coming , his body tenses up so that if the punch did land, he could better absorb it.

Folley really didn't have a chance not only because of the speed of the punch but because of the angle tha it was thrown from. This is what made ali's punches so effective.
This.

Plus it was a well timed little peach of a punch that landed square.
young griffo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #10
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Zora fought well in that bout, and did very well in the First 2-Rounds, winning
them both.

And held 'Even' ground for much of Round 3.

But, as usual, Zora was 'suspect' in the 'punch taking ability', as he liked to go to the
canvas. Sometimes for a rest, and sometimes to sleep.

No dive here, as Zora went as far as many had thought.

Cassius Clay defeated another old 1950's Heavyweight, who was at his prime
before JFK was President.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 09:06 AM   #11
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,628
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

yes, he took the dive. All Ali KO's were dives, dont you know that?
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 09:12 AM   #12
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,628
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Zora fought well in that bout, and did very well in the First 2-Rounds, winning
them both.

And held 'Even' ground for much of Round 3.

But, as usual, Zora was 'suspect' in the 'punch taking ability', as he liked to go to the
canvas. Sometimes for a rest, and sometimes to sleep.

No dive here, as Zora went as far as many had thought.

Cassius Clay defeated another old 1950's Heavyweight, who was at his prime
before JFK was President.


Genuine question SP.

Which, if any, of Ali's title wins do you think were on the level and not a fix/dive/old opponent/dodgy ref or dodgier judges?
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 10:06 AM   #13
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36 View Post
Genuine question SP.

Which, if any, of Ali's title wins do you think were on the level and not a fix/dive/old opponent/dodgy ref or dodgier judges?
vs. Liston I............Obvious Funny Business (Follow The Money)
vs. Liston II...........Fix, Fake, Fraud, Phony
vs. Patterson.........Legitimate (Floyd had a Bad Back Though)
vs. Chuvalo...........Legitimate (George was a fill-in replacement though)
vs. London............Legitimate (London Falls Down)
vs. Cooper.............Legitimate (Heres Comes the Blood)
vs. Mildenberger......Legitimate (Milton Berle was the #1 WBA Challenger)
vs. Terrell..............Legitimate (Though Many said Ernie was Over-Rated)
vs. Williams............Legitimate (A Shell of a Fighter, Literally Shot)
vs. Folley..............Legitimate (Give the Old Guy a Chance)
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #14
HOUDINI
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

First Ali Liston fight was formally investigated by Florida state authorities. They found no evidence of a fix.

Second Ali Liston fight was formally investigated by the NY state athletic commission. They found no evidence of a fix.

End of story.
HOUDINI is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #15
MagnaNasakki
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,829
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

I agree with Houdini. I don't back theories, if all official investigations clear a fight, its clear.

If Zora was taking a dive, it would have made more sense to just go, not fight extremely well. He gave Ali a nice match, and some difficulty.

Do I think he could have risen from the final knockdown? Yes. But most knockouts are a combination of hurting a fighter and breaking his spirit. It is possible, and indeed often necessary, to CONVINCE him to stay down. I find a consistent body attack to be the ticket, I'd imagine the sharp, quick, painful punches of Ali and his taunting style were his.
MagnaNasakki is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013