Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-18-2012, 06:20 PM   #136
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,605
vCash: 330
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Seamus, I'm asking myself that question also
i think he's closing in fast. I'm struggling to justify why Holmes should rank above him at present.

one thing rocky has going for him is he defeated other undisputed champions. Something wlad is yet to do. But if he beats two top ten guys next year, he might just crack my top 5.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-18-2012, 07:26 PM   #137
Asterion
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,879
vCash: 75
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I'm not even sure this is true any longer. Note that Wlad's current unbeaten streak is longer than Marciano's entire career. Also, note that Marciano was nothing more than a regional fighter going up against some pretty awful opposition for the majority of his career. He capped off his run against some pretty middling old folks and light heavies in what must have been the weakest era in the division's history.

I'm beginning to think that, minus the rose-tinted mythology and the Italian American jizz fest, Wlad is truly the greater heavyweight.
Most of this is true.

Rocky's unbeaten career started in March 1947 and ended in September 1955. That's 8.5 years.

Wlad's unbeaten streak started in October 2004. At the earliest, it could end in his next fight, March 2013. That's also 8.5 years.

Rocky's retired at 32.

Wlad's career, until today, has lasted 16 years. Soon he will be 37 years old.

(In fact, only Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and James Jeffries had longer unbeaten streaks than Wlad.)
Asterion is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #138
Asterion
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,879
vCash: 75
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Seamus, I'm asking myself that question also
i think he's closing in fast. I'm struggling to justify why Holmes should rank above him at present.

Ranking above Holmes is harder for Wlad, imo.

Holmes was undefeated since the start of his career until he was past his prime in 1985. He never lost in his prime. Wlad did at least two times.

That's the main difference. Both dominated mediocre divisions during 7 years, though, and Wlad's comp might be a bit better (just because Holmes never unified and fought a lot of boxers with less than 20 pro fights).
Asterion is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 07:32 PM   #139
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 9,276
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Funny but I just watched a overweight 40 year old 5'11 Sherman Williams (who is not a puncher) stagger 6"7 Robert Hellenus and a lot of the reasons put forth here are size and Robert who is a puncher could not get off vs the smaller man ...I do not think R.H. is in the class of Klitschko but when a real puncher connect to any chin you never know

After watching Johnathan Banks dispatch the mighty muscled Seth Mitchell and would love to see how the svelt Ezzard Charles with a few more lbs of muscle would do these days

Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of the Klitschko's and I think Vlad has improved with each fight. I think he displayed a great variety of punches vs Wach, it was a showcase fight. The Klitschko's are also very fit but in a 15 round fight fought at a fast pace I can see an ATG like Marciano making him work and Marciano's power, Walcott KO (right hand) Layne KO (Layne proved to be tough chinned before this) some of the Moore battery, can not be discounted...this is a very tough fight for Vlad despite his size and it only takes one snowball to start an avalanche, another question is it 12 or 15 rounds

Last edited by Bummy Davis; 11-18-2012 at 07:45 PM.
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 07:40 PM   #140
Asterion
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,879
vCash: 75
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post

After watching Johnathan Banks dispatch the mighty muscled Seth Mitchell and would love to see how the svelt Ezzard Charles with a few more lbs of muscle would do these days

That's always a risk.

If you change a variable, everything could change. You never know. If you give more muscle to Charles, his speed would change, changing his style and possibly everything, including his stamina and defense. In my opinion, in fantasy matchups you can only use a fighter from his best performance.
Asterion is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 08:13 PM   #141
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,125
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
Most of this is true.

Rocky's unbeaten career started in March 1947 and ended in September 1955. That's 8.5 years.

Wlad's unbeaten streak started in October 2004. At the earliest, it could end in his next fight, March 2013. That's also 8.5 years.

Rocky's retired at 32.

Wlad's career, until today, has lasted 16 years. Soon he will be 37 years old.

(In fact, only Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson and James Jeffries had longer unbeaten streaks than Wlad.)

Err.. didn't Marciano flee back to the amateurs after that March 47 victory, and wasn't his next pro victory 16 months later? That stretch of professional inactivity, fit between bouts with two non-entities, constitutes 20% of his career. Just further indictment, in my opinion.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 08:23 PM   #142
NoNeck
Pugilist Specialist
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,235
vCash: 500
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Funny but I just watched a overweight 40 year old 5'11 Sherman Williams (who is not a puncher) stagger 6"7 Robert Hellenus and a lot of the reasons put forth here are size and Robert who is a puncher could not get off vs the smaller man ...I do not think R.H. is in the class of Klitschko but when a real puncher connect to any chin you never know

After watching Johnathan Banks dispatch the mighty muscled Seth Mitchell and would love to see how the svelt Ezzard Charles with a few more lbs of muscle would do these days

Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of the Klitschko's and I think Vlad has improved with each fight. I think he displayed a great variety of punches vs Wach, it was a showcase fight. The Klitschko's are also very fit but in a 15 round fight fought at a fast pace I can see an ATG like Marciano making him work and Marciano's power, Walcott KO (right hand) Layne KO (Layne proved to be tough chinned before this) some of the Moore battery, can not be discounted...this is a very tough fight for Vlad despite his size and it only takes one snowball to start an avalanche, another question is it 12 or 15 rounds
Wlad has little in common with Helenius, who won wide anyway, and Seth Mitchell. Mitchell is also a lot shorter than Wlad and Banks is bigger than Marciano. I question Marciano's ability to get full power on a head shot against Wlad. I can't see him ever connecting with that short right.
NoNeck is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #143
kingfisher3
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: south london
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

what would be the best tactics for marciano to use?
for 6 rounds i would want to see mostly body shots to try and get wlad's hands down a bit and take him out of his comfort zone.
not much rocky can do about clinches himself, so i'll have joe cortez to referee
kingfisher3 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:44 PM   #144
MadcapMaxie
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 500
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusak View Post
Haye fights nothing like Marciano. That's why he was able to go the distance. Or are you suggesting that Marciano would do what Haye did? I'd say he couldn't if he wanted to. And Marciano is not better than Haye at everything. Marciano is definitely NOT harder to hit from the outside. Haye also has better hand speed and foot speed. I don't think Marciano is a harder puncher than Haye either, probably the other way around.
I agree to a point, Haye fought to survive which is why he lasted, Marciano would be fighting to win that alone shows you the difference between the fighters. However, that's what I think it would take to beat Wlad, to fight him, not do what Haye did stay on the outside eating punches then blindly lunging in every so often to throw a wild punch. Marciano didn't fight on the outside, every second of every round Marciano was trying to get in close, in order to unleash a barrage of bombs. Haye even tho he went the distance had the absolute worst game plan possible against Wlad by staying on the outside on the end of Wlads jab and yet he still survived. Marciano will be bobing and weaving to get inside, and to fight on the inside something Wlad hasn't proven he's able to do effectivley. Win, Lose or Draw Marciano would give an infinitely better account of himself than Haye.

Haye's feet and handspeed although certainly faster than Marciano accounted for nothing against Wlad other than to run away something you admitted Marciano wouldn't be doing. Marciano's power seemed to be more devastating but it might be able to be argued any way. Marciano certainly throws a HELL of alot more punches tho.
MadcapMaxie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:02 AM   #145
TheSouthpaw
Champion
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,935
vCash: 500
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Marciano KO by the 6th. And heres why, Brute force power, fact of the matter is Wlad never been as hard as The Rock's gonna lay it on him, and Wlad is just not talented enough to keep a stalker and power puncher like Marciano off his hs big ass, I say Rocky destroys his ass!
TheSouthpaw is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #146
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,605
vCash: 330
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
Ranking above Holmes is harder for Wlad, imo.

Holmes was undefeated since the start of his career until he was past his prime in 1985. He never lost in his prime. Wlad did at least two times.

That's the main difference. Both dominated mediocre divisions during 7 years, though, and Wlad's comp might be a bit better (just because Holmes never unified and fought a lot of boxers with less than 20 pro fights).
I'm not sure Larry had the sqne dominance to be honest... He struggled in some fights and he never once fought a fellow belt holder. Even when all he had to do was face a mandatory to unify he failed again.

Larry is a better heavyweight than wlad. I'm just not sure he was a better champion.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:38 AM   #147
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,642
vCash: 238
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
If you think Wlad is skilled in classic boxing then you need to get a better understanding of what great boxing skills are all about. Wlad does not exhibit great boxing skills..period. Walking statue with very questionable wiskers and very questionable courage. No fighter with a questionable chin and questionable courage can be called an all time great fighter. The guy was koed by the breeze from Purities punches...stagger all over the ring dropping in sections, looking for the exits type of knockdowns. Same with Brewster, same with Sanders....but no way Rocky Marciano beats Wlad? If these three zeros can do it why can't a world class all time great champion do the same?
Yes, it's well possible that Marciano takes him out. He has the power to do so.

Regarding Wlad's stamina, that's changed a lot. He lost the Purrity and Brewster fights purely because of it - both times he rarely got hit even when he was falling all over the place before being stopped. He used to have very wrong training habits. A lot of weight lifting and sparring 4 intense rounds but rarely more. When he hooked up with Steward, that changed and he trained like a classic boxer. It showed: since then he's shown good stamina. Against Peter he wasn't caught on the ropes a single time during all 12 rounds while maintaining 40-50 punches a round. Against Chambers and Thompson he showed late round power to still score a KO.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:43 AM   #148
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
Yes, it's well possible that Marciano takes him out. He has the power to do so.

Regarding Wlad's stamina, that's changed a lot. He lost the Purrity and Brewster fights purely because of it - both times he rarely got hit even when he was falling all over the place before being stopped. He used to have very wrong training habits. A lot of weight lifting and sparring 4 intense rounds but rarely more. When he hooked up with Steward, that changed and he trained like a classic boxer. It showed: since then he's shown good stamina. Against Peter he wasn't caught on the ropes a single time during all 12 rounds while maintaining 40-50 punches a round. Against Chambers and Thompson he showed late round power to still score a KO.
Shame he wasted his physical prime with a shit trainer.
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:19 AM   #149
rusak
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 897
vCash: 500
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
Marciano KO by the 6th. And heres why, Brute force power, fact of the matter is Wlad never been as hard as The Rock's gonna lay it on him, and Wlad is just not talented enough to keep a stalker and power puncher like Marciano off his hs big ass, I say Rocky destroys his ass!
Stop overrating Marciano's power. Marciano wore 6 ounce gloves and fought a litany of past-prime cruisers and light heavies, some of them with certifiable glass jaws. So the results are not particularly surprising.
rusak is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 09:39 AM   #150
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Martha's Vineyard
Posts: 13,430
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Marciano did NOT wear 6 ounce gloves
SuzieQ49 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013