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Old 11-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Exactly. Golota WAS a headcase. Saying "If he wasn't crazy" is stupid. He was crazy. And he didn't have any heart.

I totally agree with you. Golota of Bowe II, with Lennox Lewis' brain and heart, has all the shot in the world. I'd actually probably pick him to win the fight.

He doesn't. He's the dumbest good fighter of his era, and he was as weak-willed a stud heavyweight as I have EVER seen.

He doesn't beat a true champion. No way. He was unlucky against Ruiz, but fact is, he found a way to lose that fight; He stopped fighting late, got horribly negative, and started getting hit hard and hit often.

Against Byrd, he struggled to keep his punches up, was easy to hit, and got frustrated enough to whiff a whole lot of air, probably the reason Byrd hung on to a draw.

Wlad is more formidable, powerful, and frustrating then either combined. If Andrew can't handle business, and he has a long, storied history of not handling business, against the best fighters he's fought, he wouldn't beat a guy who would be the second best fighter he'd have EVER fought(Behind Lewis, just ahead of a faded Tyson).
In fairness though, 1996 Golota would have easily beaten 2004 versions of Byrd and Ruiz. Golota's left hand was shot after the accident he had following the Grant fight, and his jab (his #1 weapon) was never the same.

So a past-prime permanently injured Golota was competitive against Byrd and Ruiz. I personally had him beating Byrd 116-112, and beating Ruiz 114-112. I have no doubts, none whatsoever, that '96 Golota dominates Byrd and stops Ruiz early.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:08 PM   #47
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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In fairness though, 1996 Golota would have easily beaten 2004 versions of Byrd and Ruiz. Golota's left hand was shot after the accident he had following the Grant fight, and his jab (his #1 weapon) was never the same.

So a past-prime permanently injured Golota was competitive against Byrd and Ruiz. I personally had him beating Byrd 116-112, and beating Ruiz 114-112. I have no doubts, none whatsoever, that '96 Golota dominates Byrd and stops Ruiz early.
8-4 over Byrd seems REALLY generous. I had it a draw. Your scorecard for Ruiz seems about right, the KD's should have absolutely been the difference.

I'd agree with you the 1996 Golota has what he needs to beat them easily, but I'm not convinced he would. He was even more immature, and CRAZY.

He'd either get so pissed off at John Ruiz he'd thrash him, or get so dirty he'd foul out. Ruiz would was a subtle, dirty bastard.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #48
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
8-4 over Byrd seems REALLY generous. I had it a draw. Your scorecard for Ruiz seems about right, the KD's should have absolutely been the difference.

I'd agree with you the 1996 Golota has what he needs to beat them easily, but I'm not convinced he would. He was even more immature, and CRAZY.

He'd either get so pissed off at John Ruiz he'd thrash him, or get so dirty he'd foul out. Ruiz would was a subtle, dirty bastard.
I scored Golota-Byrd the same as Fightnews.com

There were some close ones in there that were a nightmare to score, and I admit I probably gave Golota the benefit of the doubt in some of those rounds where others may not have. But I don't think my score is far off the mark, especially when a pretty big on-line boxing publication scored it the same.

I think 1996 Golota would have bested Byrd and Ruiz easily. Neither had the raw power to strike fear into Golota, and Andrew was a great athlete in 1996 with deceptively fast hands and tremendous reflexes. I think Golota stops Ruiz in a round or 2, and beats Byrd similarly to what Wlad did in his first fight with Byrd. That is a 1996 Golota.

Golota-Ruiz was truly one of the dirtiest contests I had ever seen, where there is an example of just about every foul in the book. Terrible fight.

Golota-Byrd was quite entertaining, though. I was (and still am) extremely disappointed that one didn't result in an immediate rematch.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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I scored Golota-Byrd the same as Fightnews.com

There were some close ones in there that were a nightmare to score, and I admit I probably gave Golota the benefit of the doubt in some of those rounds where others may not have. But I don't think my score is far off the mark, especially when a pretty big on-line boxing publication scored it the same.

I think 1996 Golota would have bested Byrd and Ruiz easily. Neither had the raw power to strike fear into Golota, and Andrew was a great athlete in 1996 with deceptively fast hands and tremendous reflexes. I think Golota stops Ruiz in a round or 2, and beats Byrd similarly to what Wlad did in his first fight with Byrd. That is a 1996 Golota.

Golota-Ruiz was truly one of the dirtiest contests I had ever seen, where there is an example of just about every foul in the book. Terrible fight.

Golota-Byrd was quite entertaining, though. I was (and still am) extremely disappointed that one didn't result in an immediate rematch.
I just can't get beyond how mentally weak and gutless he was, but I do think your analysis is valid. Tremendously talented fighter, very, very good, very gifted.

It's a shame he came to maturity and strength so late. His performance against Mike Mollo was nothing short of strong and professional, and he was clearly badly faded. That sort of suck it up type grit in 1996, and he's either the heavyweight champion, or the perennial runner up. Exercised some demons in his final comeback, I feel. I wrote him off, finally, as done after Brewster waxed him.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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I just can't get beyond how mentally weak and gutless he was, but I do think your analysis is valid. Tremendously talented fighter, very, very good, very gifted.

It's a shame he came to maturity and strength so late. His performance against Mike Mollo was nothing short of strong and professional, and he was clearly badly faded. That sort of suck it up type grit in 1996, and he's either the heavyweight champion, or the perennial runner up. Exercised some demons in his final comeback, I feel. I wrote him off, finally, as done after Brewster waxed him.
Agreed 100%. The Mollo fight was the ONLY time that Golota overcame adversity. It would have been the perfect note for him to bow out on, beating a local rival in a fight where his eye was completely swollen shut.

I believe the Golota who beat Doc Nicholson (which was in '96 before the Bowe fights), even though he showed weakness with the battering ram headbutt in a fight he was winning clearly, would have bested Byrd and Ruiz.

The type of fighter that struck fear into Golota and put him in panic mode was someone with good one punch KO power. I just do not think Byrd or Ruiz fit that description, and if 2004 Golota hung with those guys and arguably beat them, 1996 Golota I believe would have had a field day with them.

Golota's speed and athleticism had already slowed down a good deal by the time he fought Grant. But against Grant, he still had a high quality jab, it was just slower than it had been three years earlier and Golota had stopped committing to his punches the way he did previously by then, too.

After the Grant fight, his jab was gone. Ample evidence of this existed in both the Norris and Tyson bouts.

In 2003-2004 Golota still had a little something left athletically.

But then he aged really bad after that. Golota's hand speed was not just gone, he became painfully slow in the delivery of his punches.

A lot of people look at Golota's track record of failures - Bowe x2, Lewis, Grant, Tyson, Brewster, etc. But in doing this, they often overlook the fact that Golota was an amazing specimen in 1996. Like Riddick Bowe, Golota peaked fast. I think Bowe was clearly past his best in '96, but he was not "shot" the way many claim. He was still widely regarded as the best heavyweight in the world going into the first Golota fight, and he had come off of a KO win against Evander (this was before Holyfield got a crack at Tyson).

Bowe peaked fast, but he was still a good fighter 1993-1996. Past prime, yes! But shot? No ****ing way. Bowe would have still beaten most heavyweights out there in '96.

I always wonder what would have happened with Golota had his scheduled bout with Ray Mercer gone through following the Bowe fights. One of them (I forget which, but it may have been Golota) suffered I believe a neck injury which prevented that fight from going forward, and instead of fighting Mercer, Golota got thrown in with Lennox, and this was at a time when many observers thought the Pole would beat Lewis.

Golota was talented. As you said, it's too bad his physical prime and mental prime were so far separated from one another in terms of years. By the time Golota started maturing mentally, his physical gifts had already become quite ordinary.

The entire case study just goes to show it takes more than physical talent to become a world champion.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

Golota isn't stupid in the conventional way ... he doesn't have inferior intellect or low IQ, dude just seems to panic and find a way to mess up ... maybe its something subconscious ... probably stemming from how rough his upbringing was and he reverts back to fouling and quitting when his opponent refuses to fall ...

Seems like an anxiety disorder and low self confidence ... him quitting the Grant fight was the best display of this ...
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Golota isn't stupid in the conventional way ... he doesn't have inferior intellect or low IQ, dude just seems to panic and find a way to mess up ... maybe its something subconscious ... probably stemming from how rough his upbringing was and he reverts back to fouling and quitting when his opponent refuses to fall ...

Seems like an anxiety disorder and low self confidence ... him quitting the Grant fight was the best display of this ...
He is not a stupid man, but inside the ring he suffered from mental weakness.

When I did the Heavyweight History series with Emanuel Steward, I asked him a question about Golota. And as it much as it pains me, Steward was correct.

Here was the question:

Q: Andrew Golota is a good example of an A-level talent who never amounted to becoming an A-level fighter. Would someone like Golota have had more success if he had fought in a different era?

A: I don’t think Golota would have been any different in any era. Golota was not a winner inside, and champions are made inside. All of the heavyweights champions that we have mentioned, when we were talking about with Joe Frazier, Muhammad Ali, Marciano—they were strong tough guys. To give an example, once we talked about Marciano. Fights where he was knocked down, his two greatest victories were (Archie) Moore and with (Jersey Joe) Walcott coming off the floor, those type of efforts. Champions are made inside, and Golota was a loser.

I saw him winning a fight when I was doing the broadcast with Michael Grant and he just quit because it got to be rough, and with (Riddick) Bowe. He really just quit. He purposefully threw low blows it looked like just to get disqualified almost, and with Mike Tyson, in the fight Mike was doing his best and after about three rounds before Mike’s like I guess getting tired or whatever, and I remember he went back to his corner and when his trainer jumped in his corner and took his mouthpiece out he said, ‘You ought to keep this because I don’t need it, because I’m going to the dressing room’, and he just left! He just walked out, but he was a quitter. He wouldn’t have held up in any era with anybody because as soon as the heat got on him, even if he was winning a fight, I knew he would quit.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #53
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

To be fair Tyson really damaged him and gave him serious injuries ... it was the smart thing to walk away from that fight ...
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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To be fair Tyson really damaged him and gave him serious injuries ... it was the smart thing to walk away from that fight ...
I don't know. Golota weathered the storm and survived Tyson's most dangerous moments. Tyson ALWAYS faded after 2 rounds or so at that point in his career. Golota was afraid stepping into the ring. The aura of 80s Tyson seemed fresh in his mind, not the Tyson who gassed out after a few rounds and resorted to throwing one shot at a time.

As big of a Golota fan as I am, I can't say that it was smart to walk away. I'm not saying with 100% certainty that you're wrong, but I'm not sure the extent of his injuries were as serious as they said. I think they were honestly trying to save face because of the way Golota bounced out of there.

If he wanted to quit, he should have just stayed down after that first knockdown.

I watched that fight for the first time in years a few months back, and I was actually quite surprised, because Golota did far better than I recalled in the first round (*at least until he was dropped). He was in panic mode all through the 2nd, though.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:16 PM   #55
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Dr. Wesley Yapor, a neurosurgeon treating Golota, said the fighter sustained a concussion, a fractured left cheekbone and a herniated disc between the fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae.

[...]

"If he had sustained another serious blow to the head, he could have become paralyzed," Yapor said. "There's no way I would have allowed him to enter the ring for the second round."

Tyson was high as fvk that fight who knows what would've happened ... would've been a NC even if Golota "won" due to marijuana in Tysons system
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #56
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

Not a winner inside...perfect way to describe it.

Wlad has panicked and blown fights, but never to the level Golota has.

He's just not beating many really good fighters, unless they aren't strong hitters and have incredibly clean styles. The slightest bit and real anxiety, and he'll begin to unravel, and even shot Riddick Bowe knew that was the time to press and foul so the chains come off.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:20 PM   #57
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Dr. Wesley Yapor, a neurosurgeon treating Golota, said the fighter sustained a concussion, a fractured left cheekbone and a herniated disc between the fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae.

[...]

"If he had sustained another serious blow to the head, he could have become paralyzed," Yapor said. "There's no way I would have allowed him to enter the ring for the second round."
I remember the reports. Just not sure I buy them.

Quote:
Tyson was high as fvk that fight who knows what would've happened ... would've been a NC even if Golota "won" due to marijuana in Tysons system
I could be mistaken, but I think you are incorrect. Martinez still holds a victory over Chavez Jr.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #58
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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I remember the reports. Just not sure I buy them.



I could be mistaken, but I think you are incorrect. Martinez still holds a victory over Chavez Jr.
Never an NC if the clean fighter wins. I don't think in a single state.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:10 PM   #59
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

Golota doesn't get a chance here because Wlad is rated to highly. I dont rate the guy. He has big power in his right hand ,an average jab but has huge weakness. Even by his own admission he's not a natural fighter. He has beaten nobody to prove he is as unstoppable as he's made out to be.

Early 2000's Golota was still elusive enough and had the upper body movement to dodge and parry Wlads straight hands to get close. Wlad was not as sharp back then. He gets on his bike and Golota gains the confidence to close him down. Golota was also not stupid enough to be anywhere near the path of Wlads right. Golota drives hims him to the ropes where Wlad has no answer or he gets stopped trying.

Wlad might easily win on paper but thats not the way it works. Golota has more tools and ways to beat Wlad than vice a versa.

Last edited by dinovelvet; 11-20-2012 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:14 PM   #60
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Default Re: Andrew Golota vs Wladimir Klitschko

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Golota doesn't get a chance here because he's rated to highly. I dont rate the guy. He has big power in his right hand ,an average jab but has huge weakness. Even by his own admission he's not a natural fighter. He has beaten nobody to prove he is as unstoppable as he's made out to be.

Early 2000's Golota was still elusive enough and had the upper body movement to dodge and parry Wlads straight hands to get close. Wlad was not as sharp back then. He gets on his bike and Golota gains the confidence to close him down. Golota was also not stupid enough to be anywhere near the path of Wlads right. Golota drives hims him to the ropes where Wlad has no answer or he gets stopped trying.

Wlad might easily win on paper but thats not the way it works. Golota has more tools and ways to beat Wlad than vice a versa.
I disagree. I think Wlad has way more ways to win, namely being, he does something other than panic and fall apart when he's hit heavily these days. He holds, which is just going to piss Golota off more.

Golota was no defensive wizard. Bowe was landing consistently when the clumsiest, slowest right hands over the top I've seen a good heavyweight throw. It wouldn't be up to Andrew; He's getting hit with that right hand, whether he likes it or not.
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