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View Poll Results: More Skilled
Floyd "Money" Mayweather Jr. 107 50.95%
Roberto "Manos De Piedra" Duran 103 49.05%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:33 PM   #361
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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I can't stand idiots who don't think it takes a lot of skill to be an aggressive fighter who comes forward. It takes a lot of skill to cut off the ring, roll with and slip shots, fight on the inside, place your punches well, etc...

Of course, that style was just one of the styles in which Duran was effective. He could be effective at different ranges and different styles. I agree that he was perhaps the best ever at mixing offense and defense effectively. Some of the sequences in the last 2 fights with DeJesus in which he did that were beautiful.

Would you say Floyd is the most skilled since Whitaker?
Completely atypical performances when contrasted with everything he's thought and stereotyped to be. He toyed with DeJesus - an elite fighter - by their third fight. Almost mercilessly. He was out for blood against Leonard, although his defensive and countering abilities should've been quite evident regardless when you watch more than highlight reels. He thoroughly worked him over. Leonard was shell shocked by what he had on his hands for the first third of the fight, at least. Aggression was just a fraction of it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #362
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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I didn't say his opponents suck. N'Dou, Baldomir, Judah, etc. Are all good, solid fighters. Nothing special, though.

Tell me when Floyd has ever fought an opponent on the same skill level as a prime Sugar Ray Leonard and thoroughly beat him?
He's never done that.
No Floyd does not have a SRL on his resume but still he fought more big names than Duran, not to mention Floyd more accomplished.

On the flip side of the coin. Floyd would never lose to a level B fighter either. You should name the good as well as the bad.

FYI SRL fought the wrong fight against Duran in their first outing.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #363
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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It seems as if some people just think a guy who is aggressive and comes forward is like Rocky, a punching bag, and think to have "skills", they get images of guys like Ali and Leonard dancing around the ring and fighting from the outside (nevermind that they had MUCH more to their games than that and Leonard was more effective in a different style). I'm gonna pick on Khan again and use him as an example. He's fast and sometimes moves around the ring and people say he's "skilled" and has "good footwork"

I see that with Chavez too. His skills often get underrated because he so often came forward and applied pressure. He cut off the ring well, placed his combos well, stayed low and slipped/rolled with shots effectively. He could fight in other manners too, he spent like 95% of the Lockridge fight boxing on the backfoot and using lateral movement.

Floyd is extremely skilled and technically sound. When I see him make some fundamental mistakes, I often notice it's a trap and by design. He leaves his left hand low more often against shorter fighters to try to bait them. He goes back in a straight line to the ropes, and that's often to sucker a guy in (Hatton). I do think he goes to the ropes or gets trapped there a little too much, although he is effective fighting off the ropes.

When he's in a more offensive mode though, he's not as good at incorporating his defense as Duran. In the exchanges, he leaves himself open and often his chin is in the air. Duran was better at mixing both offense and defense at the same time...throwing a combo, slipping and ducking the retaliation, and then coming back again with some offense. It isn't difficult to see when watching their fights that Duran was better in the exchanges at incorporating both offense and defense.

Floyd's an expert and nullifying his opponent's output though. He (usually) hits hard enough to get his opponent's respect and worry about what is coming back when he firing at Floyd. Floyd then controls the pace and tempo.
Chavez is one of the most skilled fighters I've ever seen. At his peak, he was damn near flawless technically. He did practically everything right.

Hagler often gets sold as a face-first brawler when he was more of a boxer/puncher who liked to move and circle quite a bit. I know you've made tons of posts about that inaccurate description of him as well.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #364
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
We, on a whole, aren't saying Floyd isn't skilled, we're just saying he's not on the tier that Duran is.

Which is the very highest tier, where only a very select few are located.
Floyd ain't there.
Thats ok I respectfully disagree
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #365
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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It has devolved.

The all-around talent pool is weaker. Floyd is one of the few great fighters out there now who would be successful in better eras like the 70s and 80s.

For crying out loud, Victor Ortiz was considered the 3rd best WW when Floyd beat him. I knew that at age 34, coming off over a year of inactivity, that Floyd would still handle him with relative ease because he is that much better than the likes of Ortiz and Berto. Floyd actually has real top-notch technical skills in addition to athleticism/speed.
No argument there. Definitely not as good. A former cyclist who didnt start boxing till he was 20 is world middleweight champion.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:10 PM   #366
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

I think most people on this thread have only watched a bloated and 30+ version of Duran who had had 70+ fights after dominating the LW division for nearly ten years then decided to step up and fight the P4P stars from the WM and MW divisions.

Even then he put beatings on Cuevas, Moore and Palimino as well as comfortably outpointing a prime Sugar Ray Leonard, outfighting a massive middleweight champion in Iran Barkley and give guys like Marvin Hagler and Wilfred Benitez long nights.

But the best version of Duran was before that fighting at LW, the guy was offensively brilliant, had power, could finish, knew how to set traps, could pile on pressure etc. He was also very effective in defence rolling his head near perfectly to slip or roll punches, hard to hit due to excellent movement. He could feint very well, could draw boxers in, had a great jab, excellent combination puncher, could use angles.

The fact is that Duran has a good argument for being the best all round technical boxer of all time. He fought all manor of opponents with different styles and adapted his skillset to fight very different ways in defeating them.

I can't be bothered now but I'll post some videos later to show evidence of all this.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:10 PM   #367
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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Floyd has fought more big names, eh?

ROBERTO DURAN's TOP 10 RATED OPPONENTS

1970: Ernesto Marcel (Future World FW Champion)
1971: Hiroshi Kobayashi (No. 2 SFW) (@135)
1972: Ken Buchanan (World LW Champ)
-- Wins Lightweight title
1972: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW) (@140) - LOSS
1973: Hector Thompson (No. 6 LWW) (@135)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1974: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1975: Ray Lampkin (No. 1 LW)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1976: Lou Bizzarro (No. 5 LWW) (@135)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1977: Vilomar Fernandez (No. 4 LW)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1977: Edwin Viruet (No. 2 LW)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1978: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW)
-- Defends Lightweight title
1979: Carlos Palomino (No. 6 WW)
1979: Joseph Nsabuga (No. 9 WW)
1980: Ray Leonard (World Welterweight Champion)
-- Wins Welterweight title
1980: Ray Leonard (No. 2 WW) - LOSS
-- Loses Welterweight title
1981: Nino Gonzalez (No. 9 LMW)
1982: Wilfred Benitez (No. 1 LMW) - LOSS
1983: Pepino Cuevas (No. 5 WW) (@154)
1983: Davey Moore (No. 2 LMW)
1983: Marvin Hagler (World MW Champion) - LOSS
1984: Thomas Hearns (World LMW Champion) - LOSS
1986: Robbie Sims (No. 3 MW) - LOSS
1989: Iran Barkley (No. 2 MW)
1989: Ray Leonard (No. 3 MW) - LOSS
1994: Vinnie Pazienza (No. 7 MW) - LOSS
1995: Vinnie Pazienza (No. 5 SMW) - LOSS
1996: Juan Castro (No. 5 MW) - LOSS
1997: Juan Castro (No. 6 SMW)
1998: William Joppy (No. 2 MW) - LOSS


What if he was over the hill and fighting above his best weight?


He fought like he usually does against Duran.
I suggest you watch some more SRL footage.
You've list a lot of B level fighters as big names. William Joppy? Vinnie Paz, Robbie sim? Nino Gonazlez. Joesph Ns.

Thats like chop chop corely, angel manfreddy, Gatti level.

You talk as if Floyd isn't close to being over the hill. Go watch PBF and then watch Money and tell me if there isn't a drastic change.

Still Floyd still can find a way to dominate guys at age 36 and beat guys younger and bigger. Why? use ur brain. And he will continue to win like that for several more years. Maybe not against the young elites in a couple more years but he'll still whoop the young B levels.

As for SRL, He fought Duran Flat footed, thinking he can slug it out with Duran even though SRL is more than capable to get on his bike.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #368
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

There comes a point where you have to concede that the best way to analyse this is to pit them-both past their prime and unable to rely on physical advantages- against the fearsome pure technique of pillow fisted Ayub Kalule at 154.

Floyd from the Oscar fight is beaten relatively widely and in comfortable dull fashion via superior reach long straight lefts of accurate doom and quick Napoles'esque halfsteps back out of range, while Floyd is trying to potshot single righthand leads and backing ineffectually to the ropes far too often.

Duran from Moore finds a way to win through freakish defensive radar and ring-centre slipping\countering and distance control.Probably some savagely skillful fouling too.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #369
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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Originally Posted by tliang1000 View Post
No Floyd does not have a SRL on his resume but still he fought more big names than Duran, not to mention Floyd more accomplished.

On the flip side of the coin. Floyd would never lose to a level B fighter either. You should name the good as well as the bad.

FYI SRL fought the wrong fight against Duran in their first outing.
FYI you know **** ALL

FYI you muppet SRL has always fought that way & why should'nt he, BIGGER/STRONGER/FASTER/YOUNGER & he still got outboxed + don't you think that someone with the ring IQ of Leonard would'nt have a plan B, Out of his own mouth came the words "I tried everything" But Duran was always one step ahead of me

You say Floyd has fought more big names when was the last time that cunt fought a live opponant who was'nt on the downside or from lower weights or just plain brain damaged like Ortiz Squeaks past an old man in DLH then legs it! Fights WBU-B level Hatton, drags counterpuncher Marquez up from Lightweight, Baldimir who could'nt outsprint a bag of cement! Gatti!! Washed up punchbag pug! Cotto! Never the same fighter after those 2 hammerings at the hands of Margo & Pacman. WOW what a resume.

You ever heard of Marvin Hagler you mug! Wilfred Benitez! Carlos Palomino! this is just 3 he took on 2 & 4 weights above his natural weight & pushing 30 & 33 years of age, he took on the monster Hagler at 32 who SRL & Hearns wanted no part of for obvious health reasons. Duran DUCKED NO ONE & FOUGHT EVERYONE put in front of him regardless of the handicap of age & weight, whilst your girl Floyd has created a whole new lexicon to get out of any possible danger, stating Vacation! Health! No Interest! Tests! Give me ALL the MONEY! Now **** off back to the MMA forum.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:28 PM   #370
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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FYI you know **** ALL

FYI you muppet SRL has always fought that way & why should'nt he, BIGGER/STRONGER/FASTER/YOUNGER & he still got outboxed + don't you think that someone with the ring IQ of Leonard would'nt have a plan B, Out of his own mouth came the words "I tried everything" But Duran was always one step ahead of me

You say Floyd has fought more big names when was the last time that cunt fought a live opponant who was'nt on the downside or from lower weights or just plain brain damaged like Ortiz Squeaks past an old man in DLH then legs it! Fights WBU-B level Hatton, drags counterpuncher Marquez up from Lightweight, Baldimir who could'nt outsprint a bag of cement! Gatti!! Washed up punchbag pug! Cotto! Never the same fighter after those 2 hammerings at the hands of Margo & Pacman. WOW what a resume.

You ever heard of Marvin Hagler you mug! Wilfred Benitez! Carlos Palomino! this is just 3 he took on 2 & 4 weights above his natural weight & pushing 30 & 33 years of age, he took on the monster Hagler at 32 who SRL & Hearns wanted no part of for obvious health reasons. Duran DUCKED NO ONE & FOUGHT EVERYONE put in front of him regardless of the handicap of age & weight, whilst your girl Floyd has created a whole new lexicon to get out of any possible danger, stating Vacation! Health! No Interest! Tests! Give me ALL the MONEY! Now **** off back to the MMA forum.
Yeah but Floyd never quit like a bitch in the middle of a fight infront of his fans nor has anyone quite as epicly as Duran did.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:29 PM   #371
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

Accurate doom.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #372
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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FYI you know **** ALL

FYI you muppet SRL has always fought that way & why should'nt he, BIGGER/STRONGER/FASTER/YOUNGER & he still got outboxed + don't you think that someone with the ring IQ of Leonard would'nt have a plan B, Out of his own mouth came the words "I tried everything" But Duran was always one step ahead of me

You say Floyd has fought more big names when was the last time that cunt fought a live opponant who was'nt on the downside or from lower weights or just plain brain damaged like Ortiz Squeaks past an old man in DLH then legs it! Fights WBU-B level Hatton, drags counterpuncher Marquez up from Lightweight, Baldimir who could'nt outsprint a bag of cement! Gatti!! Washed up punchbag pug! Cotto! Never the same fighter after those 2 hammerings at the hands of Margo & Pacman. WOW what a resume.

You ever heard of Marvin Hagler you mug! Wilfred Benitez! Carlos Palomino! this is just 3 he took on 2 & 4 weights above his natural weight & pushing 30 & 33 years of age, he took on the monster Hagler at 32 who SRL & Hearns wanted no part of for obvious health reasons. Duran DUCKED NO ONE & FOUGHT EVERYONE put in front of him regardless of the handicap of age & weight, whilst your girl Floyd has created a whole new lexicon to get out of any possible danger, stating Vacation! Health! No Interest! Tests! Give me ALL the MONEY! Now **** off back to the MMA forum.
Floyd fights guys on the downside? Is ok to dislike the guy but no need to make lies. Floyd has been fighting guys coming off sensational wins. So you should do some research before u post.

Again. Duran losing late in his career is his problem. Duran losing to bigger guys is also his problem. Duran losing to b level fighters is still his problem. When Floyd start doing the same thing it will be his problem.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:58 PM   #373
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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Originally Posted by tliang1000 View Post
You've list a lot of B level fighters as big names. William Joppy? Vinnie Paz, Robbie sim? Nino Gonazlez. Joesph Ns.

Thats like chop chop corely, angel manfreddy, Gatti level.

You talk as if Floyd isn't close to being over the hill. Go watch PBF and then watch Money and tell me if there isn't a drastic change.

Still Floyd still can find a way to dominate guys at age 36 and beat guys younger and bigger. Why? use ur brain. And he will continue to win like that for several more years. Maybe not against the young elites in a couple more years but he'll still whoop the young B levels.

As for SRL, He fought Duran Flat footed, thinking he can slug it out with Duran even though SRL is more than capable to get on his bike.
If that was truly the case, Duran likely gets KO'ed. Leonard was just outskilled, on about every level and front. He found Duran almost impossible to land on clean with any type of consistentcy and was buckled several times by sharp, accurate counter shots without Duran even needing to get inside.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #374
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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I listed top 10 rated opponents.


No I'm not. I'm well aware that Mayweather's getting long in the tooth now and is sliding a bit, but he's not as past it as Duran was when he was losing to Kirkland Laing.


Against whom, exactly? Victor Ortiz? Duran besting Davey Moore and Iran Barkley is more impressive than beating Ortiz.


Have you ever considered that it was Duran's skill and ability, rather than Leonard fighting the "wrong" fight that lead to that victory?
I doubt it.
Floyd has been fighting top 10 guys even before his first title match with Generado Henderaz.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:05 PM   #375
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Default Re: Floyd or Duran - Most skilled?

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If that was truly the case, Duran likely gets KO'ed. Leonard was just outskilled, on about every level and front. He found Duran almost impossible to land on clean with any type of consistentcy and was buckled several times by sharp, accurate counter shots without Duran even needing to get inside.



You know Leonard fought the wrong fight.


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