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Old 11-19-2012, 03:59 PM   #16
HOUDINI
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Big difference between the two. I know of no one during that time who felt Wills would beat Dempsey. Big slow moving hwts were Dempseys meat.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Between what two? The odds on Holyfield beating Tyson were so long that it changed the way gambling on boxing was done in Vegas forever, it was insane.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Big difference between the two. I know of no one during that time who felt Wills would beat Dempsey. Big slow moving hwts were Dempseys meat.
Try Dempsey's management and probably Dempsey himself, amongst commentators of the time. And since when was Wills slow?
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
List of Wills' notable victories:

Luis Firpo
Jeff Clark
Kid Norfolk
Sam Langford
Gunboat Smith
Fred Fulton
Joe Jeanette
Sam McVey
Battling Jim Johnson

List of Dempsey's notable victories:
Luis Firpo
Tommy Gibbons
Georges Carpentier
Bill Brennan
Billy Miske
Jess Willard
Gunboat Smith
Battling Levinsky
Fred Fulton
Good lists but I'd add

Dempsey

Sharkey
Carl Morris


Wills

Bill Tate
Weinert
Denver Ed Martin
John Lester Johnson
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Could you.. based on resume alone, sure, would I, no.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Once again...there is a huge difference between speculating that Wills could beat Dempsey but quite another that experts at that time actually felt Wills had a chance. Arcel did not think so, Fleischer did not think so, Tunney did not think so, Sharkey did not think so, Greb did not think so. One man who knew Wills better than anyone in the ring was Langford. Langford did not think Wills could beat Dempsey either. Langford stated that Dempsey was the greatest hwt he had ever seen. Anyway the list is endless of the experts of that time who felt Wills had little chance. Now you can all speculate that he could and that's fine but as mentioned there is a huge difference in this case between speculating he could win vs what the general expert opinion was at that time.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Nobody has to speculate that Wills would beat Dempsey to rank Wills above Dempsey. Based upon what they really actually did in the real actual world you can rank Wills above Dempsey reasonably.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Once again...there is a huge difference between speculating that Wills could beat Dempsey but quite another that experts at that time actually felt Wills had a chance. Arcel did not think so, Fleischer did not think so, Tunney did not think so, Sharkey did not think so, Greb did not think so. One man who knew Wills better than anyone in the ring was Langford. Langford did not think Wills could beat Dempsey either. Langford stated that Dempsey was the greatest hwt he had ever seen. Anyway the list is endless of the experts of that time who felt Wills had little chance. Now you can all speculate that he could and that's fine but as mentioned there is a huge difference in this case between speculating he could win vs what the general expert opinion was at that time.
* Dempsey thought Wills would beat him though
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:22 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

I've already seen people place Wills in their top 10, while completely omitting Dempsey. Is it rightful? I honestly don't know. I think Wills arguably beat a larger array of men who had world class ability for the day, than Dempsey did. No he was never officially the heavyweight champ of the world, and held the sanctioned belt known as the " colored title.", which I guess would be comparable to an alphabet strap today. But he did ride right alongside Dempsey as the second best heavyweight of the era for as long as Jack reigned and was even taking care of a lot of Jack's would be challengers for him.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Untrue. Dempsey signed to fight Wills at least once, possibly twice. No evidence whatsoever that Dempsey did not want to fight Wills in fact he opening said he wanted to fight him.

Dempseys style and skill were ground breaking in boxing history. He was the hwt champion of the world for 7 years and was renowned as one of the greatest hwt champions of all time. You cannot say any of this concerning Wills. Anyone rating Wills and not Dempsey does not know what they are talking about.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Big difference between the two. I know of no one during that time who felt Wills would beat Dempsey. Big slow moving hwts were Dempseys meat.
Do you know of any black people's opinions during the time?
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Yes. Sam Langford who fought Wills more than anyone stated Dempsey would beat Wills. He also stated Dempsey was the greatest hwt he had ever seen.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Yes. Sam Langford who fought Wills more than anyone stated Dempsey would beat Wills. He also stated Dempsey was the greatest hwt he had ever seen.
And he might've had some personal bias, considering that Wills got the best of him, basically. I'll wait. He doesn't represent the opinions of blacks.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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Originally Posted by NoNeck View Post
Do you know of any black people's opinions during the time?
YES...Sam Langford...
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:55 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

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YES...Sam Langford...
Look up at my post. Larry Holmes says Tyson doesn't hit hard.
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