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Old 11-21-2012, 07:57 AM   #106
Chappy112
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

According to some of those Ward would be 21-5 if he had traveled abroad ffs.

Making out as though he's been gifted decisions, this isn't no Felix Sturm, Marco Huck type shit. Those are the guys you wanna go after.

What about all the other American fighters who fought their entire careers in USA, why don't nobody say shit about them? USA is the biggest country for Boxing so it makes sense to fight there, that's why when British fighters make it to a certain level they goto America and only come back for "homecoming" fights.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:58 AM   #107
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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Originally Posted by yeyo monster View Post
brittish fans sounds really bitter!!! get over it...is you want a rematch is going to be in america.....if you believe you are so good....beat the champ and take the belts home....thats it. Ward won his right!!! stop sounding pathetic
So why, in your warped mind, is it ok for Ward to get Kessler and Froch when they were Champs to come to him with their titles but not ok for him to go to them with his?

If he's going to beat them no matter what then surely its going to be great psychologial victory for him if he humiliate them in their home countries, and get the plaudit for going to their backyard while doing so.

If he's so much better than them, and he can beat them anywhere, then why are you saying he shouldn't? Can you really say it would do any damage to his legacy to beat either Froch or Kessler in their backyards instead of his?
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:04 AM   #108
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

[quote=BatTheMan;14244796][quote=Loudon;14244725]

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So you think he will travel to his opponents backyard? I don't.
I don't know, probably not, unless he has to. At the moment he doesn't have to, because he's the man, and he's got more power over the other fighters, and he fights in America.

When you're not American, you have to make concessions. When Froch and Kessler were starting out, they knew at some point, that they'd have to travel to make it big. American's very rarely travel, if they've got good promoters and they fight on HBO or Showtime. The majority of the Worlds biggest fights, are held in the U.S. so they have advantages over non American's.

Manny, Sergio and Khan have all moved to the U.S. for example. Guys like Ward have the luxury of being American. Froch and Kessler HAVE to travel, Andre doesn't. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the way it is. He's not going to fight in Denmark unless he has to.


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He did beat Glen Johnson though and he fought the available opposition didn't he?
Yes he had a few good wins. I don't think he wanted to unify with Joe though. Like I say, as it stands Andre is doing what Ottke did, but the circumstances are different. Andre's American, America is the home of boxing, and Showtime have just hosted the tournament that he's won. But I understand where you're coming from though.

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Goosen did a tremendous job for Ward no doubt about it. He made the ultimatum that if Ward didn't get all his fights at home he wouldn't enter. The rival promotors caved in under pressure from Showtime.
That's right, he did a great job. But if the rival promoters had have stood firm, I'm sure Andre wouldn't have pulled out. I think if Andre would have had to have travelled, I think he would have done.

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It was a gimme from the moment it was clear that the fight was at 168 and in jOakland. Everybody but Ward-stans knew that.
I can't agree. Chad's a good fighter. I don't see how it was a gimme?

F/hype and Boxing/scene etc, all had it has an even fight. I listened to lots of interviews and read lots of articles etc.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:05 AM   #109
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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So why, in your warped mind, is it ok for Ward to get Kessler and Froch when they were Champs to come to him with their titles but not ok for him to go to them with his?

If he's going to beat them no matter what then surely its going to be great psychologial victory for him if he humiliate them in their home countries, and get the plaudit for going to their backyard while doing so.

If he's so much better than them, and he can beat them anywhere, then why are you saying he shouldn't? Can you really say it would do any damage to his legacy to beat either Froch or Kessler in their backyards instead of his?]
thats how showtime playd the cards!! if the promoter had decide ward had to made the unification in england or denmark...i know he would had go...he is a profecional fighter...its a sport that fear is not allowed.

the problem is that Ward is the champion and he has the right to choose were he wants to defend his tittles.....so you guys have to deal with that.

i love both carl and kessler.......but if the think they can beat him...take the belts with out crying like a bitch
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:12 AM   #110
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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Originally Posted by yeyo monster View Post
thats how showtime playd the cards!! if the promoter had decide ward had to made the unification in england or denmark...i know he would had go...he is a profecional fighter...its a sport that fear is not allowed.

the problem is that Ward is the champion and he has the right to choose were he wants to defend his tittles.....so you guys have to deal with that.

i love both carl and kessler.......but if the think they can beat him...take the belts with out crying like a bitch
Froch and Kessler are in the process of rebuilding, gaining momentum to challenge Ward again. This will, inevitably, end with a fight between the two of them so only one will get their rematch. They've both said they want Ward, they've both said they think they can beat him and dont think they were at their best in their first fights against him, none of which seems particularly like whining to me.

I'm pretty sure that both Kessler and Froch said that while they want the rematch to happen in England or Demark they're prepared to go to America for it.

My main problem is the way I have seen Ward fans going on about how the rematch would have to happen in America as if there would be no benefit whatsoever to the fights happening in England or Denmark. There are benefits to be had for Ward in beating Froch or Kessler in their hometown rather than his or some neutral venue in America - the payday wouldn't be noticably smaller and Ward could dispell some myths surrounding him while proving his superiority - so I still dont understand why people are ruling it out entirely.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:26 AM   #111
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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Originally Posted by MAJR;14244917[QUOTE
]Such mentality alway makes me ask; if Ward is so obviously superior to Froch that a rematch would be a repeat of the first fight if not a greater one-sided fight in Ward's favour, then why dont Ward fans get behind the idea of him going to Britain and humiliating Froch on Froch's home turf?
Hi mate,

I'll get behind it, but at the moment, he's having a break.

He's no desire right nown to fight a guy he's outclassed less than 12 months ago.

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Does Ward have to go to Britain? Of course he doesn't. A potential rematch, should it happen sometime in the future, would be just as big a payday, or even bigger, in the US and Ward is the King of the division so shouldn't have to go anywhere - not that that will stop people complaining, it certainly didn't stop people moaning about Calzaghe when he was King - but going to Britain and beating Froch in a shut out would destroy any notion of Ward being afraid of travel and it would ruin any credibility anyone ever gave to Froch being a legitimate challeger to Ward.
Like you've just mentioned, he doesn't have to go anywhere at the moment.

The situation with Calzaghe was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. He was an unknown fighter, fighting in a weak divison, defending his WBO belt. All the best fighters available to him, were in America. Andre has already beaten all of the top fighters in his weight class. Joe had to leave his comfort zone to get the big fights. Luckily for Andre, they've all gone to him, because of Goosen, and because Showtime hosted the Super Six.

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So, the way I see it, if Froch earns a rematch and Ward chooses to have it in the UK, and its as onesided as his fanboys are saying it would be, then Ward benefits greatly from it. He'd reaffirm his position as King of the division, prove Froch was never in his league, get a big payday and in the process render the chief criticism of him - that he wont travel - obsolete.

Yet all I ever see from his fanboys is: "a rematch would be worthless" or "its a waste of time to travel to the UK" or even "Ward and all American boxing dont give a shit about the UK".

As a side note, I highly doubt that Ward would get any greater level of respect if he fought the next seven or so years as an away fighter defending his title since Lennox Lewis did exactly that when he was Heavyweight Champ and he never got any extra respect for it, but I do fail to understand how anybody can say Ward's totally superior to Froch/Kessler or whoever but then make excuses for why he shouldn't prove it in their backyard if they earn a second shot at him - which is not to say that I'd think any less of him if he didn't, I just dont understand why people say he shouldn't if he could.
They're not excuses. Put yourself in Andre's shoes. Why would you go to Denmark, unless you had to? Like you've said, he probably wouldn't get credit anyway, if he did travel.

All of this anger towards him not travelling, is just from bitter fans who support the fighters he's beaten. If he travelled to Nottingham and outclassed Carl, what would happen on here?

it would be,

Carl wasn't at his best.

Ward is still boring.

etc, etc.

There would always be something.

If Andre decides to stay at 168, then at some point he'll have to fight Kessler and Froch again, because there's no one else. But, it will be on his terms, because he's the champ. Andre holds all of the cards.

If Carl was in the same position of power, he'd want to fight every fight in Nottingham with his home crowd. He hasn't fought away from home through choice, he's done it because he's HAD to.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:34 AM   #112
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
snip


Regards, Loudon.
The crucial bit about my stance on this issue is "if they earn a rematch"

I am in no way advocating Ward fighting Froch or Kessler in the next year, neither man would be worthy of a shot, but if Froch wins all his fights against credible oppostion in the next year and Kessler wins all his against credible opposition, then they fight each other, then the winner of that will be worthy of a rematch.

So if either earns a rematch then I think it would happen in 2014 at the earliest, provided Ward's not left the division by then.

And at that time I would fail to see any credibility to an argument that there would be no benefit to be had for Ward if he fought either Froch in England or Kessler in Denmark.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:37 AM   #113
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
So why, in your warped mind, is it ok for Ward to get Kessler and Froch when they were Champs to come to him with their titles but not ok for him to go to them with his?

If he's going to beat them no matter what then surely its going to be great psychologial victory for him if he humiliate them in their home countries, and get the plaudit for going to their backyard while doing so.

If he's so much better than them, and he can beat them anywhere, then why are you saying he shouldn't? Can you really say it would do any damage to his legacy to beat either Froch or Kessler in their backyards instead of his?
The difference is, Froch and Kessler HAD to go to Ward. They did it on the request of their promoters.

Nobody travells unless they have to, unless their someone like like Ali, who took great delight in doing so.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:40 AM   #114
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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I don't know, probably not, unless he has to. At the moment he doesn't have to, because he's the man, and he's got more power over the other fighters, and he fights in America.

When you're not American, you have to make concessions. When Froch and Kessler were starting out, they knew at some point, that they'd have to travel to make it big. American's very rarely travel, if they've got good promoters and they fight on HBO or Showtime. The majority of the Worlds biggest fights, are held in the U.S. so they have advantages over non American's.

Manny, Sergio and Khan have all moved to the U.S. for example. Guys like Ward have the luxury of being American. Froch and Kessler HAVE to travel, Andre doesn't. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the way it is. He's not going to fight in Denmark unless he has to.
That's right. If Kessler beats Magee he becomes Ward's mando and Ward has to defend before May 2013. As it stands I reckon that fight will go to purseoffers where there's a pretty good chance that Sauerland wins the bid on behalf of Kessler.

If that likely scenario plays out what do you think happens? Will Ward defend in Denmark or will he put his tail behind his legs and give up the belt?

I think the latter outcome is the most likely.


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Yes he had a few good wins. I don't think he wanted to unify with Joe though.
Yes he did. Ottke was the no. 1 and Joe just didn't want to go to Germany.

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Like I say, as it stands Andre is doing what Ottke did, but the circumstances are different. Andre's American, America is the home of boxing, and Showtime have just hosted the tournament that he's won. But I understand where you're coming from though.
In what way is America the home of boxing? What do mean with that term?



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That's right, he did a great job. But if the rival promoters had have stood firm, I'm sure Andre wouldn't have pulled out. I think if Andre would have had to have travelled, I think he would have done.
Andre perhaps. Goosen made the ultimatum though. All fights at home or no tournament.



Quote:
I can't agree. Chad's a good fighter. I don't see how it was a gimme?

F/hype and Boxing/scene etc, all had it has an even fight. I listened to lots of interviews and read lots of articles etc.


Regards, Loudon.
They where hyping the fight. Ask them whether they put real money on Dawson and I guarantee you that they did not. Particularly not after Miranda KO'ed him in sparring and all the rumours of weightmaking difficulties surfaced.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:46 AM   #115
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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The difference is, Froch and Kessler HAD to go to Ward. They did it on the request of their promoters.
I agree with that. I agree that it was the promoters who decided it and very few people would be the away fighter if they could help it. But still on the theoretical front, I fail to see how an argument that Ward would gain nothing from fighting a worthy challenger abroad can be supported. Realistically, he doesn't have to fight abroad so long as he calls the shots but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be some benefit for him doing so.

Quote:
Nobody travells unless they have to, unless their someone like like Ali, who took great delight in doing so.


Regards, Loudon.
And Lennox Lewis who, as I said, spent something like seven or so years fighting as the away fighter in the US, as a conscious decision to go where the top fighters in his division were and to fight where the money was.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:46 AM   #116
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

oh look an american topic starter
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:00 AM   #117
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Default Re: Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

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The crucial bit about my stance on this issue is "if they earn a rematch"

I am in no way advocating Ward fighting Froch or Kessler in the next year, neither man would be worthy of a shot, but if Froch wins all his fights against credible oppostion in the next year and Kessler wins all his against credible opposition, then they fight each other, then the winner of that will be worthy of a rematch.

So if either earns a rematch then I think it would happen in 2014 at the earliest, provided Ward's not left the division by then.

And at that time I would fail to see any credibility to an argument that there would be no benefit to be had for Ward if he fought either Froch in England or Kessler in Denmark.
Ok mate, that's fair enough.

If Andre decides to stay at 168, then he'll have to fight them at some point.

I understand exactly where you're coming from, but I'm just looking at things solely from Andre's perspective.

Fighting in Denamark would probably gain him respect like you say. But we don't know him personally.

Would he think, I'm going to go to Denmark to get rid of my stay at home tag? Or will he think, why should I have to travel to Denmark? I'll fight him here. We don't know, and it's fun to speculate. But if I was Andre, and I was the champ, I wouldn't even consider going to Denmark.

I'm sure that if Kessler could fight all of the best fighters in Denmark without ever needing to travel, I think he'd do exactly the same.

We also don't know what the terms of the contract would be do we?

If Carl keeps impressing the way he has, it might be a bigger fight for both fighters if it happened in the U.S.

In Britain they could hold it in football stadium packed with around 50,000 fans, and with a decent PPV. Both fighters would get a share of the gate and the PPV. But how many fans would watch it from the U.S.?

I think the best thing to do, would be for Carl to have a few fights in America and call him out. Because if the PPV numbers were good, then depending on what his split was, potentially he could make more than at home. America's PPV audience is huge.

It's all if's and buts at the moment.

Carl needs to keep winning in style to get Andre's and America's attention. Then if the promotion is good, both guys are going to be paid good money.

As it stands, what would Andre make if he went to England? What would he make if he fought in Denmark? Financially, would it be worth it to travel?

Of course Carl and Mikkel want hometown advantage, and I admit that it makes a slight difference. But Andre holds all of the cards.

I think Andre will stick around for a little bit, and see what happens with Dirrell's comeback, and what happens with Magee/Kessler and Foch/Bute.

I think he will rematch Carl at some point, but I think Carl will have to concede again, and go to America.

Nice debating with you.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:04 AM   #118
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[quote]
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Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
I agree with that. I agree that it was the promoters who decided it and very few people would be the away fighter if they could help it. But still on the theoretical front, I fail to see how an argument that Ward would gain nothing from fighting a worthy challenger abroad can be supported. Realistically, he doesn't have to fight abroad so long as he calls the shots but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be some benefit for him doing so.
Fair enough, I agree.

Quote:
And Lennox Lewis who, as I said, spent something like seven or so years fighting as the away fighter in the US, as a conscious decision to go where the top fighters in his division were and to fight where the money was.
That's right, because all of the big heavy fights in the 90's were watched by Millions of people and hosted in Vegas casino's. Lewis wasn't American, and that's where all the big fights were held, so he had to travel.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:13 AM   #119
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So why, in your warped mind, is it ok for Ward to get Kessler and Froch when they were Champs to come to him with their titles but not ok for him to go to them with his?

If he's going to beat them no matter what then surely its going to be great psychologial victory for him if he humiliate them in their home countries, and get the plaudit for going to their backyard while doing so.

If he's so much better than them, and he can beat them anywhere, then why are you saying he shouldn't? Can you really say it would do any damage to his legacy to beat either Froch or Kessler in their backyards instead of his?
So why in your warped mind do you want to see a re-match of a fight that wasn't overly competitive in the first place? Because Carl said he had an off night? Gee, as a fan I've never heard that from a fighter before. Why a Kessler re-match? Oh, the headbutts right? That must be it. It wasn't Ward's talent or how slow Kessler is that enabled Andre to repeatedly punch Kessler in the face now was it?

Why does Ward need a great psychological victory over two guys he already beat handily? I guess you want to see a Hatton-Pacquiao re-match or Cotto- Mayweather 2 in the UK and PR respectively huh?

You are just another butthurt fanboy who demands Ward travel simply of the notion that in a re-match Kessler and Froch may be able to regain some dignity from the one sided beatings they incurred, simply because they are fighting at home. Well keep dreaming pal, and I wonder if the sky is blue in the dream world that you live in.....
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:18 AM   #120
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Is Loudon Ward in disguise or maybe crackman Hunter?
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