How highly do you rank Roberto Duran as a welterweight?

[Flea Man]

20th best win

[Senya13]

Gans was more of an outside fighter, Duran was an infighter, less likely to be caught by something big. Even if you consider the McGovern loss legit, it wasn't anything similar to Duran's loss to Hearns, and yes, Gans fought plenty of welterweights and some middleweights.

Roy Jones has nothing to do with this thread, really. Barkley certainly wouldn't be anywhere close to top 10 wins for him. It would be on the level of a victory over Richard Hall, doesn't matter the titles Barkley got by beating Hearns. I'd pick half of Jones' lhw opponents beat Barkley easily, he was that poor.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Duran had been fighting at light welterweight limit for close to 8 years at that moment, let's not pretend it's a jump of Terry McGovern or Henry Armstrong caliber.

That isn't my point at all. I'm disagreeing with you that there are many Welters that would spark Duran?

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Gans was more of an outside fighter, Duran was an infighter, less likely to be caught by something big. Even if you consider the McGovern loss legit, it wasn't anything similar to Duran's loss to Hearns, and yes, Gans fought plenty of welterweights and some middleweights.

Roy Jones has nothing to do with this thread, really. Barkley certainly wouldn't be anywhere close to top 10 wins for him. It would be on the level of a victory over Richard Hall, doesn't matter the titles Barkley got by beating Hearns. I'd pick half of Jones' lhw opponents beat Barkley easily, he was that poor.

Richard Hall Don't be childish.

Are slick stylists the only fighters that are any good? You seem to downgrade 'sluggers' big time I.e 'Fullmer was mediocre' clearly in terms of ability he and Barkley weren't all that but that's not the be all and end all is it?

Both still better than Ruiz, but I do agree that it's gone off on a bit of a tangent and for that I apologise.

[Senya13]

Duran was vulnerable to hard punchers with boxing skills. I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of such in welterweight history. Before somebody says Hagler tested him, Marvin had average punching power and not sharp enough to be a KO artist, and he showed too much respect to Duran.

[LittleRed]

My fault. All due apologizes.

And of course its important to have differing viewpoints as they help foster debate and make us reassess our preconceived notions in addition to fueling a spirit of comradery and fraternalism.

Plus we can all agree that Tommy Hearns could have stopped Duran at 147.

[lufcrazy]

Great. Based more on his h2h ability than anything else. He beat a great version of ray Leonard and looked brilliant doing it. The way he looked against palomino and Leonard tells me he's probably a top ten ww h2h speaking.

I love it when people pick Tommy Ryan to beat him, the evidence is wholly lacking.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Duran was vulnerable to hard punchers with boxing skills. I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of such in welterweight history. Before somebody says Hagler tested him, Marvin had average punching power and not sharp enough to be a KO artist, and he showed too much respect to Duran.

I would agree with all of this but wouldn't say that means there are many WWs that would spark him.

Still, Fully Obel II

[Senya13]

Let me ask you, next-day reports for how many Tommy Ryan's fights have you seen? Or the between-the-fight writeups by people like Macon, Right Cross (Armstrong), Mathison, Floto, Griswold, Left Cross, O'Hara, Siler, Mack, etc?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Let me ask you, next-day reports for how many Tommy Ryan's fights have you seen? Or the between-the-fight writeups by people like Macon, Right Cross (Armstrong), Mathison, Floto, Griswold, Left Cross, O'Hara, Siler, Mack, etc?

I've read plenty on Ryan. He's the first greatbeelterweight in history. He set the bar in the division.

However I don't see how anyone can pick against Duran in favour of a man they've never seen fight.

[Flea Man]

I don't like non-footage based predictions anyway, unless it's an obvious styles thing. Here, it isn't. Picking him to beat Duran by K.O outright would not be a pick I'm comfortable with. Senya, if you've read enough on him to think it's feasible, go right ahead mate, I can't really challenge you on it mate.

Hey, I read your site man. If there's any more you wanna' share, please do.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Let me ask you, next-day reports for how many Tommy Ryan's fights have you seen? Or the between-the-fight writeups by people like Macon, Right Cross (Armstrong), Mathison, Floto, Griswold, Left Cross, O'Hara, Siler, Mack, etc?

Not as many as you.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Senya13

He was knocked down by DeJesus two times. Don't pretend he was better and a harder hitter than Walcott or Ryan.

DeJesus had a cracking left hook and caught Duran twice. Shit happens.

[Flea Man]

If he'd knocked Duran out with one of those shots I'd undoubtedly give a lot of Welters a better chance regardless if his career went on exactly as it did.

Not even the level of Welters that Senya is making the case for.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

If he'd knocked Duran out with one of those shots I'd undoubtedly give a lot of Welters a better chance regardless if his career went on exactly as it did.

Not even the level of Welters that Senya is making the case for.

I never knew a flash knockdown caused by a genuinely hard punch equates to being destroyed with two punches by other hard hitters.