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Old 11-22-2012, 12:27 PM   #16
shaunster101
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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I honestly don't know what to believe with this shit anymore.
Join the dark side Rico!
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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hes working with a self-confessed PED supplier and the difference between his performance against Mayweather at Welterweight and his performance against Pacman last time out is quite large.
Have to disagree, JamieC. Sure, he improved on his conditioning and the look of his body, but by and large the main difference was the style he was up against. A style (Pacquiao's) he matches against better than anyone else.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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You cannot in any way use that; Marquez has always had Manny's number, and its mainly down to style. To paraphrase pokemon; his style is super-effective against Pacman
i know, he asked where these rumours where coming from, i answered, didn't say i thought he was on PEDS, its more a style thing as you say, the fact he looks amazing when working with a PED supplier is dodgy but i believe in innocent til proven guilty, or, in Mayweather's case, innocent as all the evidence is hidden/destroyed
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Standard boxing testing is worthless and will only catch a) people who **** up their cycle b) people using things like diuretics to cut weight before the weigh in c) people who use recreational drugs. This is why there is a call for much better testing in boxing, because as it is it's nothing more than a token gesture.

For the 3rd fight against Pacquiao, Marquez hired a new S&C coach. This coach then turned out to be a self confessed PED expert and dealer who has provided drugs to some of the biggest athletes in sport. In fact, he only avoided prison because he turned witness and testified against people he'd worked with.

Here's an interview with the guy, makes interesting reading:
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Cheers for that mate.

Shocking article, he seems clear that EVERY top athlete is some how on drugs?!

Surely it can't all be that bad?

Just where do we go from here, no records or achievements are valid if what he says is true.

I've followed the Lance Armstrong thing and have been so disappointed that the man who I followed and cheered on was a complete fraud.

I'd assumed he was the worst it could be, but he may just be the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Have to disagree, JamieC. Sure, he improved on his conditioning and the look of his body, but by and large the main difference was the style he was up against. A style (Pacquiao's) he matches against better than anyone else.
Yep.

Trying to assess whether someone is juicing based on two fights against to vastly differing styles is not going to work. I was trying to explain that in the general forum when someone was saying 'well why has his speed, power and punch output not improved . . '
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Have to disagree, JamieC. Sure, he improved on his conditioning and the look of his body, but by and large the main difference was the style he was up against. A style (Pacquiao's) he matches against better than anyone else.
i agree, i was answering his query as to where the accusations came from
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Join the dark side Rico!
Seriously though, I'd like to believe JMM and the rest of them are clean. These are guys you've been watching for years and have let their talents awe you and invoke support/loyalty for them. So for someone to then come along and say they're cheating, is quite hard to stomach/believe.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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i agree, i was answering his query as to where the accusations came from
Ooops. My bad.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Seriously though, I'd like to believe JMM and the rest of them are clean. These are guys you've been watching for years and have let their talents awe you and invoke support/loyalty for them. So for someone to then come along and say they're cheating, is quite hard to stomach/believe.
I know. Which is why in some ways I envy the people who are genuinely none the wiser and believe that unless someone is build like a body builder with unprecedented speed and power they can't be juicing.

Unfortunately I had to write a paper about this at university, which opened my eyes a little and led me to read more and more and more and more until I reached the point where I just accepted that drugs and top level sport go hand in hand.

As you can imagine, I was a joy to watch the Olympics with . . .

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #25
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Seriously though, I'd like to believe JMM and the rest of them are clean. These are guys you've been watching for years and have let their talents awe you and invoke support/loyalty for them. So for someone to then come along and say they're cheating, is quite hard to stomach/believe.
i agree, i dont want to assume people that do well (especially moving up in weight) are on PEDs otherwise why do i watch? if they are caught fair enough, and i imagine there's a lot of it going on as the testing's pretty poor, but until individuals are caught (having contracts with anti-doping agencies helps avoid being caught ) then i assume they are innocent. A lot of people would say David Haye's transformation has been pretty good but is that a reason to suspect anything? it would be harsh to assume guilt

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

And with a sport like boxing where the risk and rewards can be so high, your career can be over in one fight, physical conditioning is so important and you can have zero faith in the testing it's not exactly surprising that people will take drugs to boost their performance. I mean, they do it in sports with far lesser rewards and with much stricter testing - why would boxers be any different?

That for me is the point that I never seem to be able to get a clear answer from by people who dismiss the prevalence of PEDS in boxing. If drugs use is sport is so endemic, as most experts in the the field believe it is, and competitors from other sports with far less risks to their health, with lesser rewards and where there is a far higher chance of getting caught still persevere and use drugs to boost their performance, what is it about boxers that make people think that the sport is exempt from these probems?
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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As you can imagine, I was a joy to watch the Olympics with . . .

i think i ruined the sprinting for my mates, i'm sorry but Jamaican sprinting is all a bit
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:45 PM   #28
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

I watched the PED hysteria slowly kill one of my favorite sports in the Cycling now I have to watch it kill boxing too.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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i think i ruined the sprinting for my mates, i'm sorry but Jamaican sprinting is all a bit
Not just Jamaican, that whole line up

Gatlin! Banned for using performance enhancing drugs, then comes back to appear at the Olympics running faster than he's ever ran before
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

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I watched the PED hysteria slowly kill one of my favorite sports in the Cycling now I have to watch it kill boxing too.
The thing with cycling is that there is a one central body responsible for governing the sport. There is no one in boxing to take responsibility for this, which is why it is allowed to fester and perpetuate . . .

I really don't see how this gets resolved. Boxing is possibly the most poorly governed, shadiest and most financially driven sport around. There's absolutely no motivation for anyone to try and clean it up.

The closest we get is a promoter trying to enforce random drug testing only to be bitten in the ass when they realise how dirty the sport is and how financially damaging it's going to be for them to keep catching out their fighters.
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