Juan Manuel Marquez looking like a beast . . .

[mishima]

Originally Posted by McGrain

There were dudes back in the day with extraordinary builds who obviously weren't using this shit.

we don't know this for sure. Anabolic steroids were discovered in the 30's and it's physical benefits were known at the time. Certain stimulants,pain killers and sedatives have been around for a long time.

[McGrain]

Check out Philadelphia Jack O'Brien or Sam McVey then. Even Sam Langford at his 170lb prime. Utter beasts with astonishing definition.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/langford3.jpg

[shaunster101]

Originally Posted by McGrain

There were dudes back in the day with extraordinary builds who obviously weren't using this shit.

http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/p...540811bpic.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...g?t=1246399127

Harold Johnson was an utter beast.

I don't disagree that it's impossible to get into the same physical shape as Marquez, certainly aesthetically speaking.

But when you're 39 years old, past your physical prime, producing far less testosterone than when you were younger and trying to fight at least 10lbs above your natural weight class (when you struggled at your previous attempt) and then you hire one of the leading PED experts and dealers of the modern athletic era into your training camp, people are going to raise eyebrows.

Then take into account that since hiring Angel Heredia (a guy whose identity they tried to hide until it was revealed by HBO/Victor Conte) Marquez has been looking like a tank of a welterweight.

Some people seem to expect that if someone is on PEDS then they should look superhuman (not saying you believe this, McGrain). That's kind of missing the point, which is that they're not a miracle drug, but they'll be very effective in helping a 39 year old man get in great physical shape and perhaps slow down or turn back the clock a couple of years - have more energy for training, recover quicker, build muscle mass easier, burn off excess fat etc etc.

[McGrain]

On the contrary, I think it's absolutely natural for an elite athlete adding weight whilst in intense training to add muscles in bulk. In fact, I can't think of any other way the thing would work.

[shaunster101]

Originally Posted by McGrain

On the contrary, I think it's absolutely natural for an elite athlete adding weight whilst in intense training to add muscles in bulk. In fact, I can't think of any other way the thing would work.

What do you mean?

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by shaunster101

What do you mean?

I mean that between the Mayweather fight and the next Pacquiao fight, Marquez has been "honing" his body at this weight (to the tune of 12lbs on the scales, an enormous amount). The dude's job - his job - is to train, six days a week whilst gaining weight. I couldn't imagine that anything other than what has occured, would occur.

[LovePisBack]

Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer

your point is flawed mate, big difference in training with weights to look good and boxing training

marquez whilst putting on a lot of muscle has kept his skill, speed, agility etc. He doesnt go to the gym and lift weights like you, he trains to box on a low calorie diet to make weight, if you take into account all these factors and for it not to impact his boxing then you need performance enhancers

Ok maybe I am not the best example but just saying it can be done easily enough.

It seems as though you are saying that it is not possible to gain 10 pounds of muscle when simultaneously training a cardio intensive sport, without the use of PED's?

[Claypole]

It's not just the fact that JMM has put on some muscle, or that he's even ripped. Look at that first picture in this thread, he's got "micro" definition on top of the normal definition, and not just in the normal places. Looks like even his face is ripped.

That's not just good diet and training, not in a million years.

[LovePisBack]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I mean that between the Mayweather fight and the next Pacquiao fight, Marquez has been "honing" his body at this weight (to the tune of 12lbs on the scales, an enormous amount). The dude's job - his job - is to train, six days a week whilst gaining weight. I couldn't imagine that anything other than what has occured, would occur.

I completely agree, he is a full time professional, the fact he looks good is not in the least bit suspcious to me.

Yes he looks a lot different to the Mayweather fight, but in that particular fight he was awful, perhaps he has learned from his mistakes and is now training/gaining weight in different, more productive ways.

I have to admit hiring this 'memo' guy does look dodgy and so yes, perhaps he is on something, but people looking at him and saying 'oh his shoulders are quite defined therefore he's definitely on roids' is ridiculous.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Claypole

Looks like even his face is ripped.

[LovePisBack]

Originally Posted by Claypole

It's not just the fact that JMM has put on some muscle, or that he's even ripped. Look at that first picture in this thread, he's got "micro" definition on top of the normal definition, and not just in the normal places. Looks like even his face is ripped.

That's not just good diet and training, not in a million years.

I've just had a look at the first pic and I have no idea what your talking about, his face is ripped? What does that even mean?

[mishima]

Originally Posted by LovePisBack

It seems as though you are saying that it is not possible to gain 10 pounds of muscle when simultaneously training a cardio intensive sport, without the use of PED's?

It's possible but gaining weight does decrease others attributes speed,explosiveness and with PED's you can reduce that effect

[mishima]

Originally Posted by McGrain

On the contrary, I think it's absolutely natural for an elite athlete adding weight whilst in intense training to add muscles in bulk. In fact, I can't think of any other way the thing would work.

Depends on the person, their training and diet

[McGrain]

I'm gonna catch shit for this (and it is one of those annoying "i know a guy" stories) but my butcher has that four-tone definition in his forearm that Marquez exhibits here.

[LovePisBack]

Originally Posted by mishima

It's possible but gaining weight does decrease others attributes speed,explosiveness and with PED's you can reduce that effect

Gaining muscle does not reduce speed or explosiveness.

Look at sprinters - the fast and most explosive athletes and they are all built like tanks.