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Old 11-23-2012, 07:55 PM   #1
SJS19
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Default Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

I won't be able to see it, as I'll be in Manchester wearing a Hatton T-shirt and drinking Guiness until Matt Hatton looks attractive. BUT

Tomorrow night we have one of the more intreuging fights of the year, as multi weight Champion Robert 'The Ghost' Guererro takes on fully fledged Welterweight Andre Berto.

First off, I'm picking Berto to win. He's just too far infront of RG physically for the difference in technique to be that big a factor. I expect Berto to end the fight inside nine rounds.

However, this is Boxing and upsets do happen. Below are my thoughts and technical observations on how Guererro can use the tools at his disposal to win the fight.

As always, feedback and ridicule is welcome, and I'd like to see your own ideas too.

Andre Berto

Berto is both fast and powerful, with a strong right hand and the ability to throw combinations. He's also a good finisher, showing little mercy when he has a guy hurt.

However, Berto is flat footed. It's why I picked Ortiz to beat him.

Berto has little to no defence. He's lucky his fight with Mosley never came off, he'd still have no feeling in his legs.

His gas tank is more than questionable, most likely due to him being ridiculously top heavy. Why do fighters insist on that?! Put the weight off of his shoulders and on to his damn legs, his cardio will improve and he'll take a better shot. ANYWAYS.

Robert Guererro

Most importantly, this is not his natrual weight. Guererro needs money and he's chasing it with whoever he can. 135lbs would suit him best, 140 would be okay, but this? This could be suicidal. Berto is not Aydin, he is bigger, stronger and quicker.

Technically, Guererro is solid. Nice fundamentals with a good ring IQ. His footwork concerns me though.

Guererro's concentration slips at times, and against a guy who's so much bigger, this could spell disaster.


How I would want Guererro to fight Berto

Start with your brain. Berto comes out all guns blazing. Guererro needs to keep his hands up and move laterally towards the LEFT hand of Berto. Don't open up. Keep to one and two punch combinations. See what Berto has. Feel the strength and take a round to adjust to the speed. Keep your feet working steadily to maintain midrange distance, if Berto explodes then move close, bang to his hips once or twice and hold. We're here to win, not to go out in a blaze of ill advised glory.

Berto has had his right shoulder repaired surgically. Boo ****ing hoo for Berto. Guererro needs to go after it. This guy has physical advantages, so let's go after those. Hook to that shoulder, tighten it up. Jab to it, double that jab, sting his shoulder so he lowers his gaze and then crack him on the nose. IMPORTANTLY, then dip at your waist, and escape via stepping out towards the shoulder just attacked.

Put a pause in him. This means stop him in his tracks. Now he's so much bigger, so how do we do that? feint with the jab and then throw the straight right hand to his chest, right in the solar plexis, I don't care who you are, that is an exposed part of your body. Make him understand that he is vulnerable.

Now Berto will be punching back, he puts full mus**** on his shots so just putting up your hands and hoping for the best won't cut it. He's too heavy and will smash through. Parry his punches downwards, and exploit the opening, particularly with the left hook counter.

Guererro will get hit, Berto is to quick not to land. Don't be too proud, grab and hold for your life. Make the ref pry you apart. Clear your head and keep to the game plan.

Around about the 7/8 round mark, go back to Berto's hips. Andre has questionable stamina, we've already worked on his shoulder, now take his legs. Use this old Latin trick to ensure that he becomes more stationairy. We're taking his base away, making him easier to attack.

Berto should be slowing down now, throw hard to his heart. Shock him, and don't stop to admire your work, make an impression on the crowd and throw for his chin. Then grab him, Berto isn't punching back, we won't let him.

Keep moving laterally, picking your times to throw and nullifiying Berto's now limited offense through superior craft. Throw enough that the judges can't ignore you, but keep your chin tucked, and your body moving. You may have a chance.




Anyone else?
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

didn't read Lolz
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

OK SJS, I've made my decision. My vcash is riding on your pick, as I'm completly stumped on this one. Have fun tomorrow as well.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Berto can be beat on the inside! Collazo and Ortiz both beat him on the inside and Berto could never adapt to the southpa stance. Only question is if hes big enough!
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Has absolutely does have a shot. Albeit a slight one, but as shot none the less. And I base my opinion on a few factors:
1. I think Guerrero is the more talented of the two. He's more technically sound and better at ad******g to different situation. He's a better boxer, and a better fighter if it comes to sluggin it out.
2. I think he has more heart and definitely a better chin then Berto.
3. He's been waiting for this moment for his entire career. A chance to prove he belongs with the best. Berto on the other hand, was handed that position, and spoon fed opponents to defend against. I think the Ghost is a man on a mission right now.
4. Berto's performance vs. Southpaws isn't the best.

And the cons..
ghost wasn't a big hitter at any weight he's fought. And he's fighting someone who does possess pop in their punches. As well as excellent hand speed. But he can be sloppy, Ghostg has to take advantage of any mistakes berto makes.

That said, hate to say, I think Berto wins. But I'm rooting for Guerrero.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
I won't be able to see it, as I'll be in Manchester wearing a Hatton T-shirt and drinking Guiness until Matt Hatton looks attractive. BUT

Tomorrow night we have one of the more intreuging fights of the year, as multi weight Champion Robert 'The Ghost' Guererro takes on fully fledged Welterweight Andre Berto.

First off, I'm picking Berto to win. He's just too far infront of RG physically for the difference in technique to be that big a factor. I expect Berto to end the fight inside nine rounds.

However, this is Boxing and upsets do happen. Below are my thoughts and technical observations on how Guererro can use the tools at his disposal to win the fight.

As always, feedback and ridicule is welcome, and I'd like to see your own ideas too.

Andre Berto

Berto is both fast and powerful, with a strong right hand and the ability to throw combinations. He's also a good finisher, showing little mercy when he has a guy hurt.

However, Berto is flat footed. It's why I picked Ortiz to beat him.

Berto has little to no defence. He's lucky his fight with Mosley never came off, he'd still have no feeling in his legs.

His gas tank is more than questionable, most likely due to him being ridiculously top heavy. Why do fighters insist on that?! Put the weight off of his shoulders and on to his damn legs, his cardio will improve and he'll take a better shot. ANYWAYS.

Robert Guererro

Most importantly, this is not his natrual weight. Guererro needs money and he's chasing it with whoever he can. 135lbs would suit him best, 140 would be okay, but this? This could be suicidal. Berto is not Aydin, he is bigger, stronger and quicker.

Technically, Guererro is solid. Nice fundamentals with a good ring IQ. His footwork concerns me though.

Guererro's concentration slips at times, and against a guy who's so much bigger, this could spell disaster.


How I would want Guererro to fight Berto

Start with your brain. Berto comes out all guns blazing. Guererro needs to keep his hands up and move laterally towards the LEFT hand of Berto. Don't open up. Keep to one and two punch combinations. See what Berto has. Feel the strength and take a round to adjust to the speed. Keep your feet working steadily to maintain midrange distance, if Berto explodes then move close, bang to his hips once or twice and hold. We're here to win, not to go out in a blaze of ill advised glory.

Berto has had his right shoulder repaired surgically. Boo ****ing hoo for Berto. Guererro needs to go after it. This guy has physical advantages, so let's go after those. Hook to that shoulder, tighten it up. Jab to it, double that jab, sting his shoulder so he lowers his gaze and then crack him on the nose. IMPORTANTLY, then dip at your waist, and escape via stepping out towards the shoulder just attacked.

Put a pause in him. This means stop him in his tracks. Now he's so much bigger, so how do we do that? feint with the jab and then throw the straight right hand to his chest, right in the solar plexis, I don't care who you are, that is an exposed part of your body. Make him understand that he is vulnerable.

Now Berto will be punching back, he puts full mus**** on his shots so just putting up your hands and hoping for the best won't cut it. He's too heavy and will smash through. Parry his punches downwards, and exploit the opening, particularly with the left hook counter.

Guererro will get hit, Berto is to quick not to land. Don't be too proud, grab and hold for your life. Make the ref pry you apart. Clear your head and keep to the game plan.

Around about the 7/8 round mark, go back to Berto's hips. Andre has questionable stamina, we've already worked on his shoulder, now take his legs. Use this old Latin trick to ensure that he becomes more stationairy. We're taking his base away, making him easier to attack.

Berto should be slowing down now, throw hard to his heart. Shock him, and don't stop to admire your work, make an impression on the crowd and throw for his chin. Then grab him, Berto isn't punching back, we won't let him.

Keep moving laterally, picking your times to throw and nullifiying Berto's now limited offense through superior craft. Throw enough that the judges can't ignore you, but keep your chin tucked, and your body moving. You may have a chance.




Anyone else?
That is the stupidest ever write-up in ESB.

First start with the brain? What is he going to do with the brain? Pad it?

And if you actually mean he fights intelligently, or any other similar word, why start with the brain?

Guerrero will win. So much ado about your stupid ****ysis.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Refreshing thread to read as opposed to a lot of the threads on here.

I tend to agree with OP on a good few points. I think those tactics are fairly good, I'd target Berto's shoulder a bit, in clinches too, and aim to tire him. I do think its a hard fight to pick and Guerrero has a definite chance. I think he is probably the better boxer, its just a question of whether Berto is too big/strong for him. Hard to see how Berto will come back too after being out of the ring so long, but I'm not sure if he was anything majorly special to begin with. I'd tentatively go with Guerrero decision but wouldn't be surprised with a Berto KO/TKO victory: he is going to land at some stage in the fight, seems inevitable.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Guerrero had a shoulder injury suffered from Aydin fight right ? It's only his second fight at the weight, no ? Katsidis successfully caught him in the 2nd round of their fight, which indicates it will not be impossible for Berto to do the same. How did Guerrero looked against Aydin ? Jo Jo Dan a C, C- lvl fighter did a number on Aydin in the first fight when he was robbed, so Selcuk is at best a B- fighter, and Berto is clearly much better.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
I won't be able to see it, as I'll be in Manchester wearing a Hatton T-shirt and drinking Guiness until Matt Hatton looks attractive. BUT

Tomorrow night we have one of the more intreuging fights of the year, as multi weight Champion Robert 'The Ghost' Guererro takes on fully fledged Welterweight Andre Berto.

First off, I'm picking Berto to win. He's just too far infront of RG physically for the difference in technique to be that big a factor. I expect Berto to end the fight inside nine rounds.

However, this is Boxing and upsets do happen. Below are my thoughts and technical observations on how Guererro can use the tools at his disposal to win the fight.

As always, feedback and ridicule is welcome, and I'd like to see your own ideas too.

Andre Berto

Berto is both fast and powerful, with a strong right hand and the ability to throw combinations. He's also a good finisher, showing little mercy when he has a guy hurt.

However, Berto is flat footed. It's why I picked Ortiz to beat him.

Berto has little to no defence. He's lucky his fight with Mosley never came off, he'd still have no feeling in his legs.

His gas tank is more than questionable, most likely due to him being ridiculously top heavy. Why do fighters insist on that?! Put the weight off of his shoulders and on to his damn legs, his cardio will improve and he'll take a better shot. ANYWAYS.

Robert Guererro

Most importantly, this is not his natrual weight. Guererro needs money and he's chasing it with whoever he can. 135lbs would suit him best, 140 would be okay, but this? This could be suicidal. Berto is not Aydin, he is bigger, stronger and quicker.

Technically, Guererro is solid. Nice fundamentals with a good ring IQ. His footwork concerns me though.

Guererro's concentration slips at times, and against a guy who's so much bigger, this could spell disaster.


How I would want Guererro to fight Berto

Start with your brain. Berto comes out all guns blazing. Guererro needs to keep his hands up and move laterally towards the LEFT hand of Berto. Don't open up. Keep to one and two punch combinations. See what Berto has. Feel the strength and take a round to adjust to the speed. Keep your feet working steadily to maintain midrange distance, if Berto explodes then move close, bang to his hips once or twice and hold. We're here to win, not to go out in a blaze of ill advised glory.

Berto has had his right shoulder repaired surgically. Boo ****ing hoo for Berto. Guererro needs to go after it. This guy has physical advantages, so let's go after those. Hook to that shoulder, tighten it up. Jab to it, double that jab, sting his shoulder so he lowers his gaze and then crack him on the nose. IMPORTANTLY, then dip at your waist, and escape via stepping out towards the shoulder just attacked.

Put a pause in him. This means stop him in his tracks. Now he's so much bigger, so how do we do that? feint with the jab and then throw the straight right hand to his chest, right in the solar plexis, I don't care who you are, that is an exposed part of your body. Make him understand that he is vulnerable.

Now Berto will be punching back, he puts full mus**** on his shots so just putting up your hands and hoping for the best won't cut it. He's too heavy and will smash through. Parry his punches downwards, and exploit the opening, particularly with the left hook counter.

Guererro will get hit, Berto is to quick not to land. Don't be too proud, grab and hold for your life. Make the ref pry you apart. Clear your head and keep to the game plan.

Around about the 7/8 round mark, go back to Berto's hips. Andre has questionable stamina, we've already worked on his shoulder, now take his legs. Use this old Latin trick to ensure that he becomes more stationairy. We're taking his base away, making him easier to attack.

Berto should be slowing down now, throw hard to his heart. Shock him, and don't stop to admire your work, make an impression on the crowd and throw for his chin. Then grab him, Berto isn't punching back, we won't let him.

Keep moving laterally, picking your times to throw and nullifiying Berto's now limited offense through superior craft. Throw enough that the judges can't ignore you, but keep your chin tucked, and your body moving. You may have a chance.




Anyone else?
For Rob to win he'll have to have a strong jab that he's constantly working. He doesn't have the power to KO Berto (at least I don't think)...so he'll have to keep Andre at a distance that will allow him to catch Berto at the end of his punches.....essentially scoring points to win a decision. Of course using a lot of lateral movement and angles will be key to keep Andre off balance and out of position to land his power shots.

The problem for Rob is that Berto most likely will have no problem walking through his punches....which means for Robert to control distance he'll have to be working at a MUCH HIGHER work rate than he's accustomed to.....A lot of things can go wrong with being OVER aggressive or overly busy when it's not really your style. We could see Rob gas out....Rob could get caught with a shot because he's throwing more punches....giving Andre MORE opportunities to capitalize on openings....

I don't see Robert winning but I do think he'll give a good account of himself. The speed Andre has...coupled with the power will cause Rob a lot of issues in finding his rhythm. I see Andre taking 2 or 3 rounds to really begin walking Robert down and breaking him down.

Robert would be smart to go to the body often and early.....he may not have the power to KO Berto with head shots....but he could soften up the body enough to damage Andre late in the fight....if it happens to last that long.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejevan View Post
That is the stupidest ever write-up in ESB.

First start with the brain? What is he going to do with the brain? Pad it?

And if you actually mean he fights intelligently, or any other similar word, why start with the brain?

Guerrero will win. So much ado about your stupid ****ysis.
Given the fact that no one on this site takes what you say very seriously, SJS should be honored that you took the time to insult his ****ysis. In a weird sort of way, doing actually validates it in the eyes of an objective observer.

And yes, starting with your brain does mean fighting smart. Anyone with basic literacy skills should be able to understand that. SJS then came up with an intelligent plan that Guerrero could use to carry himself to victory. Had you bothered to read past that first sentence before you started typing, then perhaps you might be able to provide some sport of constructive critcism beyond saying "lulz, dis is stoopid."

Anyway, the key to this fight is the fact that Berto is there to be hit, even at his best- and I suspect that his defensive ability may have eroded even further after a pretty long layoff. So, Guerrero will have pleny of chances to land early on his foe. He just has to find a way to get Berto's respect, and keep him from walking him down with impunity. If he can, he can bank enough rounds to win. If he can't, then Berto probably grinds him down and wins via late stoppage.

But I enjoyed the ****ysis, even if certain other posters are incapable of doing so.

Last edited by Drew101; 11-24-2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Guerrero will start well I think he sweeps the first 3, Berto willl lack a bit of confidence without the PEDs and he's wide open to the straight left hand which is Guerreros money shot.

Guerrero will try and stay at range controlling the fight the with the jab and straight left circling away from the big right hand, he'd be crazy to try and fight on the inside given the size difference and he'd probably get headbutted to death like Collazo did.

I think the ghost takes this something like 116-112/117-111
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejevan View Post
That is the stupidest ever write-up in ESB.

First start with the brain? What is he going to do with the brain? Pad it?

And if you actually mean he fights intelligently, or any other similar word, why start with the brain?

Guerrero will win. So much ado about your stupid ****ysis.
The guy who wrote the above reply is a re****.

Its a more than decent write up, expressing his OPINION.

This guy replying clearly wasnt hugged enough as a child.... Either that or he recieved too many "special" hugs from Jimmy Saville.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejevan View Post
That is the stupidest ever write-up in ESB.

First start with the brain? What is he going to do with the brain? Pad it?

And if you actually mean he fights intelligently, or any other similar word, why start with the brain?

Guerrero will win. So much ado about your stupid ****ysis.
You go from strength to strength don't you.

Pejevan : Jabs don't count.

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Old 11-23-2012, 09:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

I think the ghost wins. We really don't know just how good Berto is. Guerrero has a lot to prove, and he may even get a late stoppage. I'm betting on the man with the better boxing skills vs the man with no stamina, questionable chin, and ped user. This is a must win fight for the ghost, and he's gonna show up. Of course, I could be wrong and Berto flattens him. But my money is Robert.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Does the Ghost have a shot at beating Berto? (Technical thread)

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I think the ghost wins. We really don't know just how good Berto is. Guerrero has a lot to prove, and he may even get a late stoppage. I'm betting on the man with the better boxing skills vs the man with no stamina, questionable chin, and ped user. This is a must win fight for the ghost, and he's gonna show up. Of course, I could be wrong and Berto flattens him. But my money is Robert.
Yeah, Quintana and Collazo both had Berto hurt at points, and neither of them could be classified as being huge punchers. Guerrero is naturally smaller, but has good punching fundamentals and is a pretty sharp puncher. It's possible that he catches Berto charging in with something he doesn't see and shakes him up early. If that happens, then I like Ghost's chances to win.
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