did angelo dundee know how to box????

[MagnaNasakki]

I boxed for Angie's 5th St. Amateur team in the mid '50s, 'n I'd had countless great trainers since the early '40s at Stillman's in N.Y., 'n Ang was terrific. He was terrific because he knew instinctively how to get the best from each fighter. He didn't do it by the numbers and cheer lead.

We'da followed him barefoot over broken glass.

We not only wanted to win but we wanted to win for him. The trips back to Miami after a team win are still euphoric memories. Our team was tight.

Not only was he able to look after Cassius Clay, Pastrano and all the first-rate talent coming from Cuba, he was hands on with his amateur team (knew all our names) pointing out everything we needed to fix 'n how to do it.

He was like a great jockey that knew how ta guide us down the home stretch, with just a touch on the shoulder or a look in the eye, like Whitey Bimstein or Freddie Brown.

He didn't grandstand elaborate instructions between rounds for TV or gym rats to analyze. Sure, he exhorted a fighter, but his real instruction might have been a touch on the right shoulder, meaning it was finally time to throw the lead right to the body.

When it worked, and the man caved, It was like hitting LOTTO.

So for me Angie was a terrific trainer, not a cheerleader or a towel carrier left to have his between rounds advice second guessed by websters who wanna hear it communicated the way they wanna hear it.
-John Garfield

Sounds like he was pretty hands on to me.

Almost nobody "produces" the fighters they take to the top nowadays. I didn't turn pro with the guys who raised me in the beginning. Somebody else taught Manny Pacquiao to box. Floyd spent NO time with his uncle until his father went to prison. They all got better, and won titles under other guys.

Hell, I'm glad I separated from my amateur team. They took me as far as they could. Pro trainers took me further.

[ron u.k.]

I remember some time in the sixties on TV watching Terry Downes fighting Willie Pastrano in London for the Light Heavyweight Title.
Downes was mauling Pastrano who was very lack lustre and after 10 rounds was clearly losing the fight.
Between the 10th and 11th round Dundee who was always a pretty laid back guy literally tore several strips of Pastrano, he shouted and swore and told Pastrano to get his act together or he was history.
The next round a fired up and motivated Pastrano found another gear went out and knocked Downes out.
A great motivator he certainly was!

[highguard]

Originally Posted by ron u.k.

I remember some time in the sixties on TV watching Terry Downes fighting Willie Pastrano in London for the Light Heavyweight Title.
Downes was mauling Pastrano who was very lack lustre and after 10 rounds was clearly losing the fight.
Between the 10th and 11th round Dundee who was always a pretty laid back guy literally tore several strips of Pastrano, he shouted and swore and told Pastrano to get his act together or he was history.
The next round a fired up and motivated Pastrano found another gear went out and knocked Downes out.
A great motivator he certainly was!

i agree with you 100 percent he was a great motivator

[highguard]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

I boxed for Angie's 5th St. Amateur team in the mid '50s, 'n I'd had countless great trainers since the early '40s at Stillman's in N.Y., 'n Ang was terrific. He was terrific because he knew instinctively how to get the best from each fighter. He didn't do it by the numbers and cheer lead.

We'da followed him barefoot over broken glass.

We not only wanted to win but we wanted to win for him. The trips back to Miami after a team win are still euphoric memories. Our team was tight.

Not only was he able to look after Cassius Clay, Pastrano and all the first-rate talent coming from Cuba, he was hands on with his amateur team (knew all our names) pointing out everything we needed to fix 'n how to do it.

He was like a great jockey that knew how ta guide us down the home stretch, with just a touch on the shoulder or a look in the eye, like Whitey Bimstein or Freddie Brown.

He didn't grandstand elaborate instructions between rounds for TV or gym rats to analyze. Sure, he exhorted a fighter, but his real instruction might have been a touch on the right shoulder, meaning it was finally time to throw the lead right to the body.

When it worked, and the man caved, It was like hitting LOTTO.

So for me Angie was a terrific trainer, not a cheerleader or a towel carrier left to have his between rounds advice second guessed by websters who wanna hear it communicated the way they wanna hear it.
-John Garfield

Sounds like he was pretty hands on to me.

Almost nobody "produces" the fighters they take to the top nowadays. I didn't turn pro with the guys who raised me in the beginning. Somebody else taught Manny Pacquiao to box. Floyd spent NO time with his uncle until his father went to prison. They all got better, and won titles under other guys.

Hell, I'm glad I separated from my amateur team. They took me as far as they could. Pro trainers took me further.

ahh some pro trainers produce fighters
like emauel stewart, with tommy hearns and kenty(light weight champ)
and not to mention, rebuilding the career of wlad kitschko

also taking a decent amateur and going to a pro trainer who further develops him is a little different then a trainer cherry picking the top talent like ali or leonard

and about pacman, come you can clearly see that roach improved him and by the way again comes this point
you can see roach giving detailed advice on things like distance,angles, etc
not only does he do this in the corner but also when talking about fights and fighters
and doing very well schooled pad work


SHOW ONE EXAMPLE of dundee
doing or saying stuff like i mentioned about roach???
before you compare him to guys like freddie brown


instead of giving celebrity statements


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH1TERW-jxg[/ame]


listen to dundee's commetary in this fight
"these guys should throw more shots"
they are talented etc

[Bogotazo]

The OP defeats his own argument just by posting that video, where Angie shows specific tips on boxing form (as if JG's firsthand account shouldn't be enough to quell all doubts). He instructs on how to avoid squaring up, how to throw a left hook off the jab, analyzes his fighter's taped bout and highlights a step and straight right as a solution for a leaping left hook from the opponent, talks about how to avoid over-extending a left hook, etc. Maybe you should actually take the time to watch your supposed evidence before blindly attempting to advance an agenda.

[red cobra]

"You're blowin' it son!"

[Bogotazo]

Originally Posted by red cobra

"You're blowin' it son!"

A comeback might be impossible here...

[red cobra]

LaBonza!!!

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by highguard

and about pacman, come you can clearly see that roach improved him and by the way again comes this point
you can see roach giving detailed advice on things like distance,angles, etc
not only does he do this in the corner but also when talking about fights and fighters
and doing very well schooled pad work


SHOW ONE EXAMPLE of dundee
doing or saying stuff like i mentioned about roach???
before you compare him to guys like freddie brown


instead of giving celebrity statements

Yeah, Dundee should have said a load of "detailed", "technical" stuff just to get your stamp of approval.

Maybe he should have employed someone like you to write a little script for him.

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listen to dundee's commetary in this fight
"these guys should throw more shots"
they are talented etc

yeah, and ... maybe they needed to throw more shots ?

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by ron u.k.

I remember some time in the sixties on TV watching Terry Downes fighting Willie Pastrano in London for the Light Heavyweight Title.
Downes was mauling Pastrano who was very lack lustre and after 10 rounds was clearly losing the fight.
Between the 10th and 11th round Dundee who was always a pretty laid back guy literally tore several strips of Pastrano, he shouted and swore and told Pastrano to get his act together or he was history.
The next round a fired up and motivated Pastrano found another gear went out and knocked Downes out.
A great motivator he certainly was!

I read where Dundee was urging Pastrano on, without too much sucess...trying to motivate him. Wille sat on his stool and told Angie "fuck you". Dundee went ballistic.."Fuck me????? No you bastard...(pointing to Downes in the opposite corner) Fuck HIM man, fuck HIM!!" Willlie found it in him to ko Downes shortly afterwards in the 10th. Yes, he was a great motivator, more so than a strategist IMO..