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Old 11-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #16
China_hand_Joe
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

Calzaghe on points.

Ultimately that volume of punches sees him overcome any fighter, no matter how skilled they are, at 168.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

I see it the same. Calzaghe is pretty hard to win a decision against, and he has such a good chin. Great as Monzon was, he lacks the handspeed to knock his man out here and he's not winning a decision.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

Actually a very tough fight to call (for me anyway) I could see Calzaghe's size and speed playing a big part to the people picking him...Myself, I see Calzaghe as a great fighter...and I rate him highly. I think Joe's overall core strength in clinches is often overlooked. There was a period in the Hopkins fight, where Bernard clinched Calzaghe and Joe flung him around in the clinch...it made a believer out of Hopkins...as stated Calzaghe's speed, unorthodoxy, and workrate give Monzon plenty of problems. But Monzon does some things that would give Joe some problems too...first being Monzon was excellent at breaking another fighter's offensive rythym by strategically retreating and forcing an opponent to reset his pattern...this tactic would stall Joe's bursts...another thing Monzon was a very good body puncher with right hand uppercuts...If Monzon wasn't finding Joe's head, he would switch to the body. As the fight went on, Monzon would start to reel him in...but could he do it? Even in fifteen rounds?...Interesting fight.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe View Post
Calzaghe on points.

Ultimately that volume of punches sees him overcome any fighter, no matter how skilled they are, at 168.
yeah, except for maybe robin reid. actually the more i think about this fight, the more i think joe has a chance. monzon would be the smaller fighter and even though joe had a manufactured career, i think joe's speed would play a big part in having some success. to me, monzon is very unimpressive on film but boy is he effective. i'll still take monzon but it's highly unlikely that joe would have even stepped into the ring with a prime monzon.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

I could almost see Calzaghe on points.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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So did Joe
Different class of opponents.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:17 AM   #22
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Different class of opponents.
Not really Hopkins was as great as anyone Monzon beat, he was past prime but so was Griffith, Benevuti and Napoles. Napoles was fighting around the lightweight until nigh on his 28th birthday too. Then Joe has past prime Eubank and Jones on his past prime greats ledger. Probably all more past prime as Monzon's ledger but Monzon was bigger than his older men too

Monzon has top contenders like Valdez, Mundine and Briscoe but Calzaghe has Kessler, Lacy, Reid, Brewer and Mitchell
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Not really Hopkins was as great as anyone Monzon beat, he was past prime but so was Griffith, Benevuti and Napoles. Napoles was fighting around the lightweight until nigh on his 28th birthday too. Then Joe has past prime Eubank and Jones on his past prime greats ledger. Probably all more past prime as Monzon's ledger but Monzon was bigger than his older men too

Monzon has top contenders like Valdez, Mundine and Briscoe but Calzaghe has Kessler, Lacy, Reid, Brewer and Mitchell
With the exception of Kessler, and i think im bein a bit generous here, the other 4 you mentioned are not as good as Valdez, Mundine and Briscoe.

Ita all opinion PP but i'll take Monzons resume and quality of opponent over JC's any day of the week.

but thats just my opinion
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

I think Monzon has a better resume as well, and is greater. Middleweight is a much deeper division.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:51 AM   #25
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Really?

Maybe just a kinda good 46-0 guy?
An excellent 46-0 guy, arguably a top 100 fighter of all time, but I am with kmac, he is not great.

So I think if the fight had happened, in the circumstances listed, Monzon would edge a close decision in a neutral venue.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Originally Posted by kmac View Post
yeah, except for maybe robin reid. actually the more i think about this fight, the more i think joe has a chance. monzon would be the smaller fighter and even though joe had a manufactured career, i think joe's speed would play a big part in having some success. to me, monzon is very unimpressive on film but boy is he effective. i'll still take monzon but it's highly unlikely that joe would have even stepped into the ring with a prime monzon.

Calzaghe fought Reid one handed from the 22nd second of the 4th round onwards due to a hand injury.

Reid that night would have been the Hopkins of the same time perhaps.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

i said it on the first page and despite compelling arguments for calzaghe i feel that monzon times him, grinds him and wins a UD. monzon would take away his handspeed and workrate, leaving super joe with only a great chin and footwork seeing him to the final bell
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36 View Post
With the exception of Kessler, and i think im bein a bit generous here, the other 4 you mentioned are not as good as Valdez, Mundine and Briscoe.

Ita all opinion PP but i'll take Monzons resume and quality of opponent over JC's any day of the week.

but thats just my opinion
Agree somewhat, not light and day in they're levels though, I believe even the 43yo version of Hopkins Calzaghe faced is a tougher challenge than anyone Monzon. Lacy is a much less skilled version of Briscoe.

Kessler's sort of a Monzon type fighter in himself, not as skilled but a similar technician with his range jab, tight defence, right handed power, constantly breaking his opponent down in an effective but unspectacular way.

Legacy wise I think Calzaghe underachieved a little where as I believe Monzon underachieved. During his peak Calzaghe was fighting ex-champions coming off losses or journeymen, which probably hurt his legacy, but Monzon's best opponent's who came off losses don't generally get downgraded
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Carlos Monzon vs Joe Calzaghe at 168 pounds.

Carlos wins, close fight for first 9-10 rds then Carlos takes command wins by ud or tko in late rds
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