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Old 11-29-2012, 04:43 PM   #76
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by miniq View Post
Chris is a man of respect and integrity unlike James.

Also thinks before he speaks -Reason he didn't say anything... not worth wasting his breathe...

Chris would have beaten Toney as well at SMW

Last edited by knockout artist; 11-29-2012 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:35 PM   #77
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Chris would have beaten Toney as well at SMW
LOL. You keep on believing that buddy.

Toney would have stopped Benn, and outclassed Eubank over 12.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:29 PM   #78
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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LOL. You keep on believing that buddy.

Toney would have stopped Benn, and outclassed Eubank over 12.

I agree he'd stop Benn, but no way he'd outclass Eubank. It would be a very close fight, and I think Eubank's movement would be key to offsetting Toney, hence I pick Chris to beat him.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:34 PM   #79
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by Earl-hickey View Post
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He's intelligent and knowledgeable in his profession.

Who could've predicted he was going to get embarrassed there?
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:36 AM   #80
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Hi mate, yes my mistake.

I thought from the Toney video, he was potentially in line to face the winner.

I don't hate Brit fighters, I'm from Sheffield.

I'm 32 and grew up watching Benn, Eubank, Collins, Naz, Rhodes, Calzaghe, Bruno etc.

I used to love Benn, but I hated Eubank when I was young, until I realised it was all an act, and then I started to really appreciate him. I even met him once in 1995 in Brighton.

I used to like Calzaghe too, until I realised he was an arrogant bullshitter, but even then, I still appreciated him, because he was a class act.

I've probably given you this impression by arguing with Bailey thousands of times about Joe chasing Roy etc.


Regards, Loudon.

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Old 11-30-2012, 06:47 AM   #81
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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There was Eubank and Benn preparing for one of the most relevant SMW fights in history and a big unification fight, whilst Toney is preparing for the legendary Pranther .
Whilst Eubank and Benn fought some of the best SMWs that were around, look at the level Toney was fighting at when SMW champ

1993 he wins the title from iran barkley a fighter who years earlier was blown away by nigel benn in 1 round and pummelled to a loss by a shot roberto duran barkley went onto lose 11 out of 25 fights following this fight and never beat anyone who was remotely good in doing so,the guy was so desperate he was even plying his trade as a HW in the late 90's against the likes of berbick and they say this era is a joke

govonor chambers a guy with a career record of 9 wins 7 losses, all 3 fights prior to toney were ko losses!

ricky thomas: won 11 lost 14,the 4 fights he had prior to toney all losses!

glenn thomas:won 29 lost 8, lost to roy jones prior to toney and finished his career with a first round ko loss to jeff lacy.

danny garcia: won 30 lost 22, was coming off losses to chris pyatt (a steve collins victim) lamar parks etc

larry prather: won 19 lost 24,lost his last 5 fights prior to the toney fight even losing to nicky piper

tony thornton: won 37 lost 7,lost to chris eubank a year earlier.

anthony hembrick: won 31 lost 8,lost to maske prior to toney and orlin norris a year earlier.

tim littles: won 27 lost 3,maybe one of his better wins,had fought mainly bums with the exception of a close UD over frankie liles,went onto lose to frankie liles in a 2nd contest following the toney fight.

vinsom durham: won 21 lost 37 enough said.

charles williams: won 37 lost 7 drew 3,lost to maske prior to toney.
(this post was improvised from ESB great Silencer, on one of his great threads)and finally the Jones fight and, That was Jones big SMW victory where Toney was alledgedly weight weakend, other than that Jones didnt do much at SMW.

Eubank and Benn though had some good genuine SMW victories

Benn beat Wharton, McClellan, Nardiello, Galvano and drew with Eubank

Eubank beat Watson, Rocchigiani, Wharton, Holmes and drew with Benn.

Eubank and Benn were fighting at a much higher level at SMW.
Toney hid from those guys


Thats the bottom line here. James Toneys 10 fight consecutive run whilst 168 champion is the worst consecutive run any reigning champion has ever faced in the modern day history of the sport
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:07 AM   #82
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by Post Box View Post
Eubanks rebuttal couldn't have been any better. "Imma beat u an yo mommas ass" *brainstorms for an entire minute* "you seem purely ignorant"
Eubank definately dropped the ball on that one.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:39 AM   #83
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Thanks for that mate!

What sort of relationship did Don and Frank have?

Did Don ever want a piece of Joe?


Regards, Loudon.
Back in the late 80's the top British promoter was Mickey Duff, but that all changed when ****** came back after almost being killed by an unknown gunman. During his time away from the spotlight he had entered into a business deal with King, which basically made him the man on the British promoter scene. Not sure what the exact details were only that they were partners and co-promoted events like Eubank-Close, Bruno-Mccall and Benn-McClellan. Most British guys saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped onto the ****** bandwagon:Benn, Bruno,Collins. ****** also had promising up and coming guys like Hatton and Hamed.

It was because of Hamed that ****** and King would fall out. ****** did not believe that King was pushing Hamed's career in America and their partnership would end when Waaren tired to sue King. A mistake which would blow up in his face and he would lose millions.

I have never come across any article/interview with King showing any interest in Calzaghe. There is a very good chance that King would of contacted ****** about a match up between Calzaghe and Liles, because King tried to match Liles up with other ****** fighters like Benn, Collins and Woodhall.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:51 AM   #84
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplosive View Post
Toney would have stopped Benn, and outclassed Eubank over 12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
but no way he'd outclass Eubank. It would be a very close fight, and I think Eubank's movement would be key to offsetting Toney, hence I pick Chris to beat him.
Phyiscal attributes:
Power: Eubank
Handspeed: Toney
Reflexes: Toney

Technical attributes

Jab: Toney
Defense: Toney
Offense: Toney
Footwork: Toney
Eubank's footwork could be downright sloppy at times, which is why he got dropped by guys like Collins and Calzaghe

Skillset: Toney
Toney is basically a improved version of Eubank. A counter puncher, with better handspeed and defense
Style advantage: Toney
Toney has beaten guys better than Eubank like McCallum. Johnson and Nunn. Eubank never beat anyone half as good as Toney. He struggled greatly with guys like Close, Malinga and Thornton.

Blueprint fight:
Toney vs Reggie Johnson

How the fight plays out:

Eubank's lateral movement won't really be a major factor in this fight because guys like Collinsx2, Thornton and Benn found him in the ring, so Toney would be able to find him also.

Two things will happen during the fight:

Eubank takes the lead:
Euabnk never looked good fighting off the front foot. A lot of the time he looked awkward and off balance. This would work to Toney's favor because he will exploit all of the openings that Eubank's flawed offense provides. Eubank really wont have much luck getting past Toney's defense and will get caught with counter right crosses/uppercuts.

Toney takes the lead:
Toney had much better handspeed and reflexes than Eubank. So its going to be hard for Eubank to find opening for counters. To be effective as a counter puncher you really need to have a speed advantage over your opponent, something which Eubank does not have in this h2h fight.

If Eubank cant even beat a limited fighter like Collins than there is no way he beats someone like Toney
Toney wide ud

Last edited by general zod; 12-03-2012 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:47 PM   #85
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by general zod View Post
Back in the late 80's the top British promoter was Mickey Duff, but that all changed when ****** came back after almost being killed by an unknown gunman. During his time away from the spotlight he had entered into a business deal with King, which basically made him the man on the British promoter scene. Not sure what the exact details were only that they were partners and co-promoted events like Eubank-Close, Bruno-Mccall and Benn-McClellan. Most British guys saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped onto the ****** bandwagon:Benn, Bruno,Collins. ****** also had promising up and coming guys like Hatton and Hamed.

It was because of Hamed that ****** and King would fall out. ****** did not believe that King was pushing Hamed's career in America and their partnership would end when Waaren tired to sue King. A mistake which would blow up in his face and he would lose millions.

I have never come across any article/interview with King showing any interest in Calzaghe. There is a very good chance that King would of contacted ****** about a match up between Calzaghe and Liles, because King tried to match Liles up with other ****** fighters like Benn, Collins and Woodhall.
Thanks a lot for your great reply, I really appreciate it! Fascinating stuff once again.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #86
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

Loudon, was the cherry picking thread deleted? Quality breakdown between Toney and Eubank.
Whats your opinion on prime Tyson v Lewis? Id like to know how you see that panning out.
Cheers mate.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:38 AM   #87
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Loudon, was the cherry picking thread deleted? Quality breakdown between Toney and Eubank.
Whats your opinion on prime Tyson v Lewis? Id like to know how you see that panning out.
Cheers mate.
I think it's still there Dino, I'll have a look. It was Zod who did the great breakdown. He's done lot's of them that are all great. I'm sure he'll oblige you when he has time.

My opinion on prime Tyson vs Lewis is,

I definitely think Mike would have caught him. I think a fit and focused Rooney trained Tyson would have got inside fairly early, gone to to the body and then taken him out. If it went past 6, I think Lewis would have taken a decision, but I think Mike would have got to him before then.

I'm sure Zod will do a more in depth analysis.

What's your opinion mate?

Thanks!
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #88
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

I dont see any a win for Lewis againt 85 to 88 Mike in any shape or form mate. There are many reasons why, but the main one for me is Lewis's footspeed against Mikes footspeed. Lewis didn't have the foot work to elude Mike into the late rounds.

Lewis was more top heavy and relied on his brute strenght and size opposed to Mike who was far more sturdy on his feet and generated power from his legs to plants his shots. Trade for trade i think Lewis is more at risk of being dropped.

On top of that, factor in blinding speed, knockout power, Tyson uppercuts, brutal bodywork and impenetrable defence, Lewis would need a miricle to get the win.

I know sCAFF is no Lewis, but how could to last 6 rounds or more of this!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPByKY8w6s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPByKY8w6s[/ame]
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:25 AM   #89
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
I dont see any a win for Lewis againt 85 to 88 Mike in any shape or form mate. There are many reasons why, but the main one for me is Lewis's footspeed against Mikes footspeed. Lewis didn't have the foot work to elude Mike into the late rounds.

Lewis was more top heavy and relied on his brute strenght and size opposed to Mike who was far more sturdy on his feet and generated power from his legs to plants his shots. Trade for trade i think Lewis is more at risk of being dropped.

On top of that, factor in blinding speed, knockout power, Tyson uppercuts, brutal bodywork and impenetrable defence, Lewis would need a miricle to get the win.

I know sCAFF is no Lewis, but how could to last 6 rounds or more of this!
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Mike wouldn't have made it into the last rounds
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #90
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by general zod View Post
Phyiscal attributes:
Power: Eubank
Handspeed: Toney
Reflexes: Toney

Technical attributes

Jab: Toney
Defense: Toney
Offense: Toney
Footwork: Toney
Eubank's footwork could be downright sloppy at times, which is why he got dropped by guys like Collins and Calzaghe

Skillset: Toney
Toney is basically a improved version of Eubank. A counter puncher, with better handspeed and defense
Style advantage: Toney
Toney has beaten guys better than Eubank like McCallum. Johnson and Nunn. Eubank never beat anyone half as good as Toney. He struggled greatly with guys like Close, Malinga and Thornton.

Blueprint fight:
Toney vs Reggie Johnson

How the fight plays out:

Eubank's lateral movement won't really be a major factor in this fight because guys like Collinsx2, Thornton and Benn found him in the ring, so Toney would be able to find him also.

Two things will happen during the fight:

Eubank takes the lead:
Euabnk never looked good fighting off the front foot. A lot of the time he looked awkward and off balance. This would work to Toney's favor because he will exploit all of the openings that Eubank's flawed offense provides. Eubank really wont have much luck getting past Toney's defense and will get caught with counter right crosses/uppercuts.

Toney takes the lead:
Toney had much better handspeed and reflexes than Eubank. So its going to be hard for Eubank to find opening for counters. To be effective as a counter puncher you really need to have a speed advantage over your opponent, something which Eubank does not have in this h2h fight.

If Eubank cant even beat a limited fighter like Collins than there is no way he beats someone like Toney
Toney wide ud




Toney would be able to find Eubank, but he wouldn't be able to hurt and vice versa. No a counter puncher doesn't always need a speed advantage - Holyfield was not faster than Tyson, yet he countered him all night. Toney wasn't that much quicker than Eubank - For instance Roy Jones would be too fast for Eubank to counter - Toney isn't.

I find it laughable that you mention Eubank's did struggle with Steve Collins and Joe Calzaghe - but what do they have in common with James Toney? You also fail to mention Toney's fights with Thadzi, Griffin and Tiberi where he got beat. Seems you definitely have it out for Eubank

Anyways, I see similarities between Eubank and Griffin - and while Toney's fights with Griffin could have gone either way, over 24 rounds he struggled with him no doubt. Griffin was no better than Eubank, and I see Toney struggling here as well.

By the way, this fight would be at SMW - not MW where Toney was at his best
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