Joey Maxim , Underated ?

[he grant]

I was studying Maxim's record the other day and two things stand out. They are his durability and his level of opposition.

In 115 bouts he was only stopped once and he immediately came back to fight and later defeat the same opponent. Maxim had 27 decision loss on his record but nine of those came against Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott. If you take out the losses to perhaps the two greatest light heavyweights of all time and a great heavyweight champion, Maxim looks far more impressive. In addition, he defeated Walcott once as well as placed the first loss on future heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson ...

Some thoughts on Maxim ...

[Bummy Davis]

He is underated...held his owned with some great fighters and was never embarrased

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by he grant

In addition, he defeated Walcott once as well as placed the first loss on future heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson ...

I always thought he got a gift over Patterson, and he may have been lucky to have fought Robinson under bizarre circumstances as well, and those are two of his biggest career achievements on paper.

His defining performance for me was when he crushed the heavily hyped challenger Bob Murphy, who was actually favored to beat him. Maxim actually stood in close and gave him a brutal body beating, and possibly ruined him.

Maxim put together a good string of wins just before and during his title reign - ie: Lesnevich, Mills, Bivins, Satterfield, Murphy, Robinson - but when he stepped up to a higher level, like he did against Charles and Moore, he usually came off a clear second best.

[Russell]

ATG no doubt, and a Lamotta level chin to boot.

[Dempsey1238]

Though Patterson won the fight on my card.
The victory should have went the other way. I pretty sure the 3 blind mice were judgeing that fight.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by My2Sense

I always thought he got a gift over Patterson, and he may have been lucky to have fought Robinson under bizarre circumstances as well, and those are two of his biggest career achievements on paper.

His defining performance for me was when he crushed the heavily hyped challenger Bob Murphy, who was actually favored to beat him. Maxim actually stood in close and gave him a brutal body beating, and possibly ruined him.

Maxim put together a good string of wins just before and during his title reign - ie: Lesnevich, Mills, Bivins, Satterfield, Murphy, Robinson - but when he stepped up to a higher level, like he did against Charles and Moore, he usually came off a clear second best.

I was ringside at Eastern Parkway Arena when Maxim fought Patterson, M2S. Disagree with you and Dempsey 1238. Thought the nod for Joey was justified, though, like everybody else from Brooklyn, I was pullin' for Floyd.

It was an all-Patterson crowd, and we'd come to see the Floyd express roll on.

Maxim was dull-as-dishwater and, God knows, predictable, but he screwed-up Floyd's rhythm and beat him to the punch and tattooed him all night with double and triple jabs. Floyd's flurries were eye-catching, but, up close, not damaging, and he wasn't busy enough.

He got out-smarted by a veteran.

[OLD FOGEY]

Originally Posted by john garfield

I was ringside at Eastern Parkway Arena when Maxim fought Patterson, M2S. Disagree with you and Dempsey 1238. Thought the nod for Joey was justified, though, like everybody else from Brooklyn, I was pullin' for Floyd.

It was an all-Patterson crowd, and we'd come to see the Floyd express roll on.

Maxim was dull-as-dishwater and, God knows, predictable, but he screwed-up Floyd's rhythm and beat him to the punch and tattooed him all night with double and triple jabs. Floyd's flurries were eye-catching, but, up close, not damaging, and he wasn't busy enough.

He got out-smarted by a veteran.

"Floyd's flurries were eye-catching, but, up close, not damaging, and he wasn't busy enough."

I have seen the tape of this fight several times and this is also my judgement.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by he grant

I was studying Maxim's record the other day and two things stand out. They are his durability and his level of opposition.

In 115 bouts he was only stopped once and he immediately came back to fight and later defeat the same opponent. Maxim had 27 decision loss on his record but nine of those came against Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott. If you take out the losses to perhaps the two greatest light heavyweights of all time and a great heavyweight champion, Maxim looks far more impressive. In addition, he defeated Walcott once as well as placed the first loss on future heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson ...

Some thoughts on Maxim ...

Maxim to me is an example of a merely good talent who over achieved. Part of boxing is who's in shape, who's tough, and who wants it more.

But in terms of talent, Maxim does not impress me a whole lot on film. Joey had a good jab, but that's about it on offense. Not much power, not much of a hook, and tad stiff. Maxim was not going to beat anyone with speed or power alone, but he could wear fighters who were not 100% ready in his own methodical, and lackluster way.

Joey had great stamina, kept punching, and had one of the best chins at light heavyweight. To be honest, I don't see Maxim as a top all time great at light heavyweight. He lacked the tools to beat most of the best light heavies.

[OLD FOGEY]

Maxim impressed me as a C level offensive fighter--fast jabs and awkward rights with little power, but accurate and usually scoring. His defensive skills, though, were A+. He could slip and roll with punches and was fast enough on his feet to get out of the way. He knew how to clinch. The punches which ko'd or floored or cut up other fighters never seemed to land right on old Joey. He must have been frustrating to fight.

I think Bummy Davis hit on a good point. Until he got old, Maxim was almost never embarressed. He fought a lot of tough men but generally hung close enough to leave the decision in some doubt. That is why he was rematched so often with Charles and Moore and Walcott.

[TheGreatA]

He had a great chin and also the heart to get back up after being knocked down. I thought he was done in the third fight against Moore but he managed to go the distance.

Going to the UK and taking the title from Freddie Mills by a KO should be considered one of his best performances.

He also "derailed" Floyd Patterson (although the decision was disputed), Bob Murphy, Danny Nardico, Paul Andrews, Bob Satterfield and other light heavyweight prospects.

I give credit to Maxim for his performances against Patterson and Robinson. He fought like a veteran against Patterson, more consistently although at times he was taking quite a beating from the much faster Patterson. The Robinson fight was not going his way but he withstood the extreme conditions and came out the winner.

Footage of the Patterson-Maxim fight:

[url]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYY_OY8Qyg[/url]

[url]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=nwvwx7gFH0w[/url]

[ThinBlack]

Yeah, beat Ray Robinson and Jersey Joe Walcott, but, amazingly lost to Bobo Olson.

[red cobra]

When you come right back in a month to avenge a stoppage vs a guy like the Hatchet man, you're first class. Maxim wasn't a great champion, but he was a very good negative type defensive spoiler.

[ecto55]

Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY

Maxim impressed me as a C level offensive fighter--fast jabs and awkward rights with little power, but accurate and usually scoring. His defensive skills, though, were A+. He could slip and roll with punches and was fast enough on his feet to get out of the way. He knew how to clinch. The punches which ko'd or floored or cut up other fighters never seemed to land right on old Joey. He must have been frustrating to fight.

I think Bummy Davis hit on a good point. Until he got old, Maxim was almost never embarressed. He fought a lot of tough men but generally hung close enough to leave the decision in some doubt. That is why he was rematched so often with Charles and Moore and Walcott.

Maxim was a product of his era, and was fortunate to become very accomplished in his style because of the dearth of excellent fighters in his era. So I think it was a chicken-and-egg scenario, he was effective because he learnt to be effective in his style given the monsters that that were around at the time.

PS. I've read that Walcott vehemently disputes that he ever lost to Maxim, but without footage, who can tell? I don't think the public and newspapermen were crying robbery, so...