A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135

masterold · 10-02-2009, 09:40 AM

Who wins this?

natonic · 10-02-2009, 09:58 AM

I think Chavez was incredible at 135. I like Arguello to beat Chavez at 130 based on it being his prime weight and based on Chavez being just a little inexperienced. I just feel like at 135 Arguello slowed down a little more (never a speed demon) and Chavez with his underrated defense would get on the inside without getting lit up on the way. On the inside it's Chavez's fight. Brutal fight, maybe some blood on both sides. I like Chavez maybe 9-6.

Duodenum · 10-02-2009, 11:15 AM

I like Arguello's reach, sharp jabs and straight punching to carry him through in this one, but that presupposes that the scheduled distance is 15 rounds, the duration which Alexis was geared for during his championship career. He blunted the shorter Mancini's inside game most effectively, and ripped apart aggressive body punching specialist Roberto Elizondo with his back against the ropes.

Bubba Busceme had a clever idea. He continually rushed Alexis, flicked out multiple right jabs from the elbow at him, then retreated quickly before repeating that attack. This was something that might be expected of Maxie Rosenbloom. Fully realizing that Busceme was aiming to snatch a hometown decision with this low energy tactic, he bent his knees and slipped many of these light taps that others would have simply allowed to score. After five rounds, Flash Gordon had Busceme pitching a shutout, but the judges all had Arguello ahead by one, probably because his defensive moves rendered the challenger's aggression largely ineffective. (Yes, matches are won by throwing punches, but those punches have to land to score. Punchstat percentage statistics on Arguello/Busceme would have been interesting to know. Footage wouldn't be of much help here, as Alexis's back was to the camera much of the time he was slipping and ducking.) Arguello/Busceme demonstrated that Alex was not as easy a lightweight target as some might suppose.

During Arguello's prime, mobility was believed to be the key to defeating him (as it was with Louis), but nobody was ever able to sustain this well enough over the championship distance to have a chance at winning a decision. I don't recall any pundit suggesting that it was prudent to try taking him to the inside. He aimed for the sternum, boosting his accuracy. His right uppercut to the body put away Ganigan, and his hook downstairs took out Kobayashi, so we know he could knockout championship caliber competition with either hand downstairs. While he doesn't likely drop or stop Chavez, his skills, underrated versatility, endurance and toughness would have carried him through for the win.

Overlooked in his Miami loss to Pryor is the fact that he was able to accept and compete with Pryor's torrid pace and pressure into the championship rounds, even though he was ten pounds past his optimal weight, and at 30 years of age against a possibly juiced opponent who had just turned 27.

Upon reflection, I think Elizondo was Arguello's most devastating win at 135, and I remember "Squeaky" (did you ever hear Elizondo speak?) as being perhaps more aggressive than even Ganigan. Pressure, infighting and body punching was no recipe for defeating him.

laxpdx · 10-02-2009, 03:17 PM

After a long, grueling war, Arguello UD.

PowerPuncher · 10-02-2009, 03:21 PM

I was thinking of posting this match up myself as its a very interesting 1. I like Chavez's ability to slip and block jabs/rights and counter to the body or head from angles at a high workrate to give Arguello trouble. Although I like Arguello's tenacity, rangyness and perfect punching. Its a real puzzler with each man giving the other problems but I feel it would be a war, and close but I think Arguello wins out by late KO

Shake · 10-02-2009, 03:27 PM

JC Chavez by UD. More fluid, faster hands for once and a better combination puncher. Has the chops to eat Arguello's bombs. Arguello has height, reach, timing and one-punch power on Chavez, but I think he comes up short.

Once Chavez gets way inside, Arguello's long arms work against him.

Bill Butcher · 10-02-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterold

Who wins this?

Arguello`s right vs Chavez chin would be fascinating... Julio had great defence at 135, his best weight IMO but he had a weakness for being nailed with straight rights at times & Alexis had one of the best straight rights in history, I think Chavez slips enough & gets inside often enough to make it a war & take a close pts win in a brilliant fight, it would be close tho & Id maybe fancy Arguello by a similar margin at 130.
Not a lot between these legendary soldiers.

Addie · 10-02-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

Arguello`s right vs Chavez chin would be fascinating... Julio had great defence at 135, his best weight IMO but he had a weakness for being nailed with straight rights at times & Alexis had one of the best straight rights in history, I think Chavez slips enough & gets inside often enough to make it a war & take a close pts win in a brilliant fight, it would be close tho & Id maybe fancy Arguello by a similar margin at 130.
Not a lot between these legendary soldiers.

I agree. Most fighters with the style of a Chavez will get stopped by Arguello at 135lbs - but Chavez possessed one of the greatest chins of all time. I don't see Arguello or any other Lightweight in history stopping the man - and therefore I feel Chavez will often take rounds on work rate, and sometimes smothering Arguello's work on the inside. It'd be close, though.

Bad_Intentions · 10-02-2009, 03:45 PM

Chavez UD.

He'll find a way to slip those straight right hands, and get inside.

PunchOut · 10-02-2009, 08:28 PM

Chavez

MrMarvel · 10-02-2009, 10:03 PM

Chavez takes a great shot and is a busy fighter against a fighter of Arguello's style. He would crowd Arguello and keep him off balance. It's a bad match up for Arguello. Arguello's win over Chavez's stablemate Ramirez was questionable. Chavez would outwork Arguello even more. Don't get me wrong, Arguello was an all-time great. He's just not as great as Chavez.

My2Sense · 10-03-2009, 03:12 AM

I would definitely favor Arguello at 130. At 135 it's harder to call, as Arguello had slowed down a bit with the extra weight, while Chavez was at least as good, if not somewhat better. Even so, I think I'd still lean toward Arguello on this one, based on his height/range and boxing skills.

ThinBlack · 11-29-2012, 09:41 PM

Arguello would decision Chavez strong over 15, asserting his dominance in the championship rounds.Something like 10-5.

Xplosive · 11-29-2012, 11:16 PM

Chavez by UD in a classic.

View Poll Results: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135
A Arguello	14	56.00%
JC Chavez	11	44.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

10-02-2009, 09:40 AM	#1
masterold Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 302 vCash: 1000	A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Who wins this?
Top

10-02-2009, 09:58 AM	#2
natonic Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,743 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 I think Chavez was incredible at 135. I like Arguello to beat Chavez at 130 based on it being his prime weight and based on Chavez being just a little inexperienced. I just feel like at 135 Arguello slowed down a little more (never a speed demon) and Chavez with his underrated defense would get on the inside without getting lit up on the way. On the inside it's Chavez's fight. Brutal fight, maybe some blood on both sides. I like Chavez maybe 9-6.
Top

10-02-2009, 11:15 AM	#3
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,700 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 I like Arguello's reach, sharp jabs and straight punching to carry him through in this one, but that presupposes that the scheduled distance is 15 rounds, the duration which Alexis was geared for during his championship career. He blunted the shorter Mancini's inside game most effectively, and ripped apart aggressive body punching specialist Roberto Elizondo with his back against the ropes. Bubba Busceme had a clever idea. He continually rushed Alexis, flicked out multiple right jabs from the elbow at him, then retreated quickly before repeating that attack. This was something that might be expected of Maxie Rosenbloom. Fully realizing that Busceme was aiming to snatch a hometown decision with this low energy tactic, he bent his knees and slipped many of these light taps that others would have simply allowed to score. After five rounds, Flash Gordon had Busceme pitching a shutout, but the judges all had Arguello ahead by one, probably because his defensive moves rendered the challenger's aggression largely ineffective. (Yes, matches are won by throwing punches, but those punches have to land to score. Punchstat percentage statistics on Arguello/Busceme would have been interesting to know. Footage wouldn't be of much help here, as Alexis's back was to the camera much of the time he was slipping and ducking.) Arguello/Busceme demonstrated that Alex was not as easy a lightweight target as some might suppose. During Arguello's prime, mobility was believed to be the key to defeating him (as it was with Louis), but nobody was ever able to sustain this well enough over the championship distance to have a chance at winning a decision. I don't recall any pundit suggesting that it was prudent to try taking him to the inside. He aimed for the sternum, boosting his accuracy. His right uppercut to the body put away Ganigan, and his hook downstairs took out Kobayashi, so we know he could knockout championship caliber competition with either hand downstairs. While he doesn't likely drop or stop Chavez, his skills, underrated versatility, endurance and toughness would have carried him through for the win. Overlooked in his Miami loss to Pryor is the fact that he was able to accept and compete with Pryor's torrid pace and pressure into the championship rounds, even though he was ten pounds past his optimal weight, and at 30 years of age against a possibly juiced opponent who had just turned 27. Upon reflection, I think Elizondo was Arguello's most devastating win at 135, and I remember "Squeaky" (did you ever hear Elizondo speak?) as being perhaps more aggressive than even Ganigan. Pressure, infighting and body punching was no recipe for defeating him.
Top

10-02-2009, 03:17 PM	#4
laxpdx Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,386 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 After a long, grueling war, Arguello UD.
Top

10-02-2009, 03:21 PM	#5
PowerPuncher ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,735 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 I was thinking of posting this match up myself as its a very interesting 1. I like Chavez's ability to slip and block jabs/rights and counter to the body or head from angles at a high workrate to give Arguello trouble. Although I like Arguello's tenacity, rangyness and perfect punching. Its a real puzzler with each man giving the other problems but I feel it would be a war, and close but I think Arguello wins out by late KO
Top

10-02-2009, 03:27 PM	#6
Shake Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,335 vCash: 75	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 JC Chavez by UD. More fluid, faster hands for once and a better combination puncher. Has the chops to eat Arguello's bombs. Arguello has height, reach, timing and one-punch power on Chavez, but I think he comes up short. Once Chavez gets way inside, Arguello's long arms work against him.
Top

10-02-2009, 03:45 PM	#9
Bad_Intentions Champion East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Miami FL, USA Posts: 9,732 vCash: 153	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Chavez UD. He'll find a way to slip those straight right hands, and get inside.
Top

10-02-2009, 08:28 PM	#10
PunchOut Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 623 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Chavez
Top

10-02-2009, 10:03 PM	#11
MrMarvel Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 899 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Chavez takes a great shot and is a busy fighter against a fighter of Arguello's style. He would crowd Arguello and keep him off balance. It's a bad match up for Arguello. Arguello's win over Chavez's stablemate Ramirez was questionable. Chavez would outwork Arguello even more. Don't get me wrong, Arguello was an all-time great. He's just not as great as Chavez.
Top

10-03-2009, 03:12 AM	#12
My2Sense Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,568 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 I would definitely favor Arguello at 130. At 135 it's harder to call, as Arguello had slowed down a bit with the extra weight, while Chavez was at least as good, if not somewhat better. Even so, I think I'd still lean toward Arguello on this one, based on his height/range and boxing skills.
Top

11-29-2012, 09:41 PM	#13
ThinBlack Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,961 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Arguello would decision Chavez strong over 15, asserting his dominance in the championship rounds.Something like 10-5.
Top

11-29-2012, 11:16 PM	#14
Xplosive Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7,371 vCash: 1000	Re: A Arguello vs JC Chavez @ 135 Chavez by UD in a classic.
Top