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Old 03-17-2008, 01:14 AM   #16
hitman_hatton1
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Both at their best?

Frazier catches up to him and breaks him down.
yeah definitely.

maxy would be have been getting bombed here.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

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Originally Posted by janitor
On paper Frazier and Schmeling are about as diferent as you can get.

In reality they both killed by atrition. They took you apart a peice at a time. They both ruined more fighters than is normal for an all time great.
I agree, that's really what makes this match-up so interesting for me.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Both guys seem to be vastly UNDERrated...I would take Joe by a decision, although a late stoppage would night surprise me.;
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

I Like Frazier bu dec or late stoppage ,cant see Joe getting Max out of there early. Frazier,against his better opponents , wore them down I think ,his power was a little overated,he didnt do shit to Bonavena ,who wasnt in Schmelings class,and was much easier to hit,Frazier takes it on work rate ,but I think he goes down during the fight.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

'Smokin' Joe mows down the Black Uhlan in 7 rounds.

Frazier KO 7 Schmelling
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

I concur with most who pick Frazier. Could be a good fight though.
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Old 03-17-2008, 04:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Inside of 15 perhaps.
Schmeling was Ko'd inside of six rounds by the following fighters.

Ko by Louis in 1
Ko by Daniles in 1
Ko by Gains in 2
Ko by Dikemann in 4

Frazier specialty was hunting down lighter boxers, and taking them out. While Schmeling could win, I think Frazier pressure would bother him, and his hook to the head and the body would get the job done inside of six rounds. There is no doubt Frazier hit harder than Daniles, Gains, or Dikemann.

Frazier forces people to fight him. I do not think Schemling was comfortable with pressure, and he lacked the chin to survive bombs. While Schmeling has a chance here, I still like Frazier inside of six rounds.

The poster known as Lobotomy made a very interesting case for Uzcudun. Paulino was one of my favorite guys. While he was more durable than Frazier, Uzcudun lakced Frazier’s dynamic speed and power with his feet and hands.
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Old 03-17-2008, 05:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Actually, the title of "history's most prolific knockout artist" belongs to Archie Moore.
My computer is not allowing me to offer long replies, but on this particular topic, Stribling was indeed the most prolific knockout artist at the time, and Archie only captured that record because of Stribling's early death in that motorcycle crash. If he had lived long enough to retire from boxing, Archie would have had no chance to approach that record. (At the same time, I realize that some of Stribling's outings were "irregular," like his exchanges with Carnera, and that Moore did have a much higher kayo percentage, but Stribling's pace was mindboggling. He was Barry Sanders to Moore's Emmitt Smith. By the way, Smith himself has said that Sanders probably would have eclipsed 20,000 career yards rushing on the gridiron had he continued as long as he was physically able. I do hate it when fate intervenes to leave behind questions of what might have been. When Cal Ripken broke Lou Gehrig's record, all I could think of was that Cal had surpassed him only because of an insidious disease. To me personally, Ripken's surpassing of 2500 consecutive games was a far more meaningful benchmark, much more satisfying from a fan's perspective.)

I'll try to reply to your other excellent points later. For the moment, let me say I felt strongly that somebody should try making a dedicated case for Schmeling. There was no question that the majority view would favor Smoke. Max deserves some dissent on his behalf.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Schmeling was Ko'd inside of six rounds by the following fighters.

Ko by Louis in 1
Ko by Daniles in 1
Ko by Gains in 2
Ko by Dikemann in 4
Only one of those fights has any relevance to this match up whatsoever.

Most of the rest correspond to a period of Fraziers career where he was fighting in the amateurs.

The only fighters who KOd Schmeling anywhere close to his prime are Louis and Baer and both scored TKOs.
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Schmeling and Frazier both have extremely similar careers in many respects.

I like Schmeling in the opening rounds out pointing Frazier, I think Frazier would land the left hook and Schmeling would land the right hand, of course both would be game. I think Schmeling had a great chin on him, despite his misleading earlier losses. I think that Frazier had a good chin on him despite the Foreman fights. Schmeling took huge shots from Baer and a huge amount of punishment from Louis.

I think it would be a great fight. One of the best matchups you could chose on a heavyweight level. Schmeling would know exactly what Frazier was going to bring and that would work to his advantage. He would be out to try and score quick and could time Frazier coming in.

Still, I don't think he has quite enough to put Frazier away and I think as the fight progresses, Frazier would work his way into the inside and land the more telling shots more often.

Joe Frazier by UD.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:29 PM   #26
Marciano Frazier
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Only one of those fights has any relevance to this match up whatsoever.

Most of the rest correspond to a period of Fraziers career where he was fighting in the amateurs.

The only fighters who KOd Schmeling anywhere close to his prime are Louis and Baer and both scored TKOs.
No, Louis' win over Schmeling was very much a solid KO.
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:31 AM   #27
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

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Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
No, Louis' win over Schmeling was very much a solid KO.
From a technical standpoint it was a TKO because Donovan never conted 10.

As you point out though it was probably a prety fine distinction under the circumstances.

The thing that people dont get their heads around about Schmeling, is that he did have a few stopages when he was 19-23 and not a fully formend heavyweight, but after the Daniels loss he continued to fight for 20 years and in that period he was only stoped by two of the hardest punching heavyweights of all time.

Now either his chin got a lot better or his defence was so good that nobody was hitting him cleanly.

I tend towards the former.

Last edited by janitor; 03-18-2008 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: Schmeling V. Frazier

I'm really enjoying the discussion. This is one of the most interesting match ups at heavyweight for me, because while stylistically they're night and day, they also share many similarities. Also, I think they're both quite underrated and are two of my all time favorite fighters.
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