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Old 11-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #1
shommel
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Default would the rope of dope worked against...

liston? why didnt ali employ this system then?
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

to be blunt: he didn't need to against liston, he still had his legs

he took horrific punishment from foreman on those ropes. it was a great strategy that was really designed to capitalize on george's looping shots and work around ali's limited movement. by 1974, he was not the fleet footed dynamo of the 60s and needed another strategy.

as to whether it would work, liston was a much more accurate puncher who relied on his jab far more than foreman did in his first career. if it worked, it certainly wouldn't have worked as well
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

Nope, Liston threw more accurate, straighter punches... and I don't believe Ali was as durable when he fought Liston as he was when he filled out a bit more in the 70's, if Ali tried to rope a dope Liston there's a strong possibility he would of got stopped on his feet imo.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

The ropes wouldn't have been so loose, so no.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

He didn't need it against Liston, he could dance and stay away for 12-15 rounds so didn't have to create a different gameplan
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

[quote=Nightcrawler;14296132]to be blunt: he didn't need to against liston, he still had his legs

he took horrific punishment from foreman on those ropes. it was a great strategy that was really designed to capitalize on george's looping shots and work around ali's limited movement. by 1974, he was not the fleet footed dynamo of the 60s and needed another strategy.

as to whether it would work, liston was a much more accurate puncher who relied on his jab far more than foreman did in his first career. if it worked, it certainly wouldn't have worked as well[/quote

Well said!
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

Too good for Liston as it was. Didn't need it. Liston was more accurate than Foreman and may have been smart enough to pace himself. George wasn't.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
to be blunt: he didn't need to against liston, he still had his legs

he took horrific punishment from foreman on those ropes. it was a great strategy that was really designed to capitalize on george's looping shots and work around ali's limited movement. by 1974, he was not the fleet footed dynamo of the 60s and needed another strategy.

as to whether it would work, liston was a much more accurate puncher who relied on his jab far more than foreman did in his first career. if it worked, it certainly wouldn't have worked as well
Ditto
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

Agree that he didn't need it in 1964 and if he used it, it probably would not have been as effective against Liston.

Also, in 1964, Ali's capacity for absorbing punishment was largely unknown and untested. Had he gone to the ropes and started taking shots, it may have been interpreted as Ali being hurt and defenseless. The referee may have stopped the fight before the strategy had a chance to work.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

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Originally Posted by JWSoats View Post
Agree that he didn't need it in 1964 and if he used it, it probably would not have been as effective against Liston.

Also, in 1964, Ali's capacity for absorbing punishment was largely unknown and untested. Had he gone to the ropes and started taking shots, it may have been interpreted as Ali being hurt and defenseless. The referee may have stopped the fight before the strategy had a chance to work.
Remember Henry Cooper, Ali was probably suspect then.
Though he was a bit younger then and the chin hadn't really matured yet.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:22 AM   #11
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

No more needs to be said.

Ali had his legs in the 60's. The rope a dope was born when Ali could no longer move full time, and needed to lean on something else: His unreal grit and iron jaw.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

foreman could cut the ring of a lot better than liston. dundee and ali's plan was to use constant lateral movement away from liston's jab and it worked - sonny kept following - ringaringarosie and sonny falls down lol. ali's plan was the same in the 1st until he realised george was too good at cutting off the ring.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

I personally think its a myth that all Ali did was lie on the ropes against Foreman. Some people actually think he lay there for 7 rounds before suddenly KO'ing a tired Foreman like something outta the Simpsons. He was ahead at the time of the KO and you dont get points by lying on the ropes.

Rant over

As far as the TS question is concerned, the other guys have got it spot on
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

Ali used different things to beat different opponents. If Angie did not employ the correct strategy, Ali's boxing smarts would come into play and he would make adjustments on the fly during rounds. Not many have that skill and Ali could pull it off. His biggest problem stylewise were the non-agressive boxers who didn't lead, not the hitters.

The rope a dope really didn't work well against Bugner #2 or Lyle either. And all Ronnie did was to shorten up his punches because he said he knew going into the fight that wide hooks would never land against Muhammad. So he threw straight shots and didn't play the rope a dope game. But Ali changed up and went to something else late in the fight and got the stoppage win. Just how many heavyweight champs can do something like that anyway? How many are capable of that degree of thinking in the 10th round of a fight they are losing?
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: would the rope of dope worked against...

No.

But he was working on something like it even then.
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